I know some people will take offense at this, but listening to a bunch of Police since the reunion caused me to go back and listen to Bob Marley, particularly the album "Catch a Fire", which I consider his/the Wailers best. After listening to that and then going back to the Police, I've gotta say...the Police did it as well as he did in many respects, and in some respects, they did it better. Stew took the basic concept of drumming from reggae and turned it into an art form of its own. Where they had a basic beat on the drums with congas, timbales, shakers, etc. on top, Stew did it all himself, on one kit, with an insane amount of skill. Sting's singing is nearly as good as Marley's, maybe slightly less soulful. His melodies are every bit as good, and his lyrics are better. Andy's guitar covers the same basic rhythm of the reggae guitarists, but then he adds a whole other level of texture with unusual chord voicings and effects. In a lot of respects, they took what Bob Marley was doing and made it better.
"Walking on the Moon" and "The Bed's Too Big Without You" are the two purest examples, but the reggae influence is there in a bunch of other songs, mixed with other multiple influences, usually all in one song. The more I think about it, the more I think the reason I like the later albums slightly less (in addition to their being overproduced) is that they started to discard their reggae element.
The Police vs. Bob Marley
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The Police vs. Bob Marley
by Wait and See on 06 Apr 2007 13:59
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by georgygirl on 06 Apr 2007 19:18
I never liked Bob Marley's music, and I love all Police's music since many miles away...
At least in my case:
'Strange Things happen...
At least in my case:
'Strange Things happen...
Wildy Pelous!
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from:
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¡Salvajilla Pelous!
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by adam1516 on 06 Apr 2007 19:31
Good post Wait and See. I agree with what you say - the Police were (are) superior to Marley. I don't think Marley invented reggae either - it was around a long time before he was. He improved it in due course, and the Police improved it further still.
I also agree with you about the last 2 albums - though I guess a lot of people would disagree.
I also agree with you about the last 2 albums - though I guess a lot of people would disagree.
"I saw, I conquered, I came"
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by Jose on 06 Apr 2007 20:37
I don't think is so smart to compare Bob Marley with The Police..., as a fact, Bob Marley was and is the most recognized leader of Reggae movement... I mean a new music born in a third world country but also feeded by other caribean rythms and music from afro-americans of USA...
On the other side, The Police builded a great sound and style based not also in reggae I mean in a diverse rate of music styles like tango, calypso, soka, punk, country american music, arab music, jazz,..etc...into rock.
That's why The Police made it better with the skills of three great musicians and their ability to produce simple music but at the same sophisticated ( for a first common hearing sophistication was hidden )
As you see the key of perfection in music and in every thing we did, is the mixing of culture... avoiding purity, "Fussion" in every aspects is the next step to climb for human development...
One world is enough.... One world is enough...One world is enough, for all of us!!! 8)
On the other side, The Police builded a great sound and style based not also in reggae I mean in a diverse rate of music styles like tango, calypso, soka, punk, country american music, arab music, jazz,..etc...into rock.
That's why The Police made it better with the skills of three great musicians and their ability to produce simple music but at the same sophisticated ( for a first common hearing sophistication was hidden )
As you see the key of perfection in music and in every thing we did, is the mixing of culture... avoiding purity, "Fussion" in every aspects is the next step to climb for human development...
One world is enough.... One world is enough...One world is enough, for all of us!!! 8)
"One World is enough for all of us"
http://the-police-al-peru.blogspot.com/
http://the-police-al-peru.blogspot.com/
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by Wait and See on 06 Apr 2007 22:15
The reason why comparing the police to Marley is inevitable is that Sting borrowed very heavily from his singing style.
The major differences are that Marley's music was generally slower, and his lyrics combined typical American blues and gospel themes with occasional drug advocacy, black power radicalism from the 60s and rastafarianism (one of the nuttiest cults in recent memory). After he began to get attention, he went on to do more light hearted pop material, love songs, etc. in search of stardom. Nevertheless, the basic core of his style was something unique.
I think the Police found ways of taking some of those ideas to another level. Obviously, the first thing they did was to fuse it with punk rock, but over time it became a fully integrated part of their sound. They "made it their own".
>>>As you see the key of perfection in music and in every thing we did, is the mixing of culture... avoiding purity, "Fusion" in every aspects is the next step to climb for human development...
One world is enough.... One world is enough...One world is enough, for all of us!!!
<<<
There was a "fad" in the late 80s for what was called "world music". It was mainly rock musicians who had exhausted the genre looking for something new. There were some interesting ideas, but it kind of went nowhere. As for whatever you mean by "avoiding purity" and "Fusion" in every aspects is the next step to climb for human development..." I don't know what to say...it actually sounds like some kind of inverted Nazism. I'm an individual liberty and self-government kind of guy. Trying to homogenize the whole world is a bad idea. Communists and Nazis are all the same-- it's a way for people to take away other people's freedom and get power for themselves by promising Utopia.
Most of the problems in the world are caused by people trying force others into collectivism. The best way for people to function is to have as little governmental coercion as possible-- just the minimum necessary to prevent basic crime. Whether it's Muslims trying to force the world to submit to Allah, socialists trying to take away people's economic freedom, or evironmentalists trying to tell people what they can or can't drive, it's all the same problem. It is only when people can't or won't govern themselves, or when they are consumed by hatred and envy toward others that totalitarianism starts to appeal to them.
The major differences are that Marley's music was generally slower, and his lyrics combined typical American blues and gospel themes with occasional drug advocacy, black power radicalism from the 60s and rastafarianism (one of the nuttiest cults in recent memory). After he began to get attention, he went on to do more light hearted pop material, love songs, etc. in search of stardom. Nevertheless, the basic core of his style was something unique.
I think the Police found ways of taking some of those ideas to another level. Obviously, the first thing they did was to fuse it with punk rock, but over time it became a fully integrated part of their sound. They "made it their own".
>>>As you see the key of perfection in music and in every thing we did, is the mixing of culture... avoiding purity, "Fusion" in every aspects is the next step to climb for human development...
One world is enough.... One world is enough...One world is enough, for all of us!!!
<<<
There was a "fad" in the late 80s for what was called "world music". It was mainly rock musicians who had exhausted the genre looking for something new. There were some interesting ideas, but it kind of went nowhere. As for whatever you mean by "avoiding purity" and "Fusion" in every aspects is the next step to climb for human development..." I don't know what to say...it actually sounds like some kind of inverted Nazism. I'm an individual liberty and self-government kind of guy. Trying to homogenize the whole world is a bad idea. Communists and Nazis are all the same-- it's a way for people to take away other people's freedom and get power for themselves by promising Utopia.
Most of the problems in the world are caused by people trying force others into collectivism. The best way for people to function is to have as little governmental coercion as possible-- just the minimum necessary to prevent basic crime. Whether it's Muslims trying to force the world to submit to Allah, socialists trying to take away people's economic freedom, or evironmentalists trying to tell people what they can or can't drive, it's all the same problem. It is only when people can't or won't govern themselves, or when they are consumed by hatred and envy toward others that totalitarianism starts to appeal to them.
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by Mikeno7 on 07 Apr 2007 02:31
please becareful w/ these comparisons- Marley-Bunny-Tosh and the Barrett brothers are a strong musical force- the one drop - was without a doubt,established in the rock genre by Stewart but by no means did he invent it. Just listen to Survival,Exodus, or Natty Dread- the drumming is innovative and creative- i'm sure Stew would agree- and We all Love the Police- to compare them to "Marley" is just spiritually wrong- it's like pitting brother against brother- music isn't a competition but one massive song that takes many forms.....
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by jedsoon on 07 Apr 2007 02:45
Very eloquently put Mikeno. Any assessment of an artist's output is basically just an expression of opinion, and each of us is entitled to our own. I would no sooner expect someone to capitulate to mine as i would be willing to do to theirs.
I could probably write a few essays on Bob... he's the only musician i could name that might possibly eclipse Stewart as my favorite source of musical inspiration. But if i prefer Marley to Stew, then its just my opinion. Feel free to take or leave!
I could probably write a few essays on Bob... he's the only musician i could name that might possibly eclipse Stewart as my favorite source of musical inspiration. But if i prefer Marley to Stew, then its just my opinion. Feel free to take or leave!
-chris
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by Wait and See on 07 Apr 2007 03:42
>>>please becareful w/ these comparisons- Marley-Bunny-Tosh and the Barrett brothers are a strong musical force- the one drop - was without a doubt,established in the rock genre by Stewart but by no means did he invent it. Just listen to Survival,Exodus, or Natty Dread- the drumming is innovative and creative- i'm sure Stew would agree- and We all Love the Police- to compare them to "Marley" is just spiritually wrong- it's like pitting brother against brother- music isn't a competition but one massive song that takes many forms.....<<<
It's hard to say that an originator could be eclipsed by someone who has borrowed from them. Certainly the creative impulse that led to the invention of a new sound is something unique that can't be minimized. However, in listening to the two side by side, I have to say the Police managed to take the style of reggae epitomized by Bob Marley and the Wailers and use it in ways that went far beyond what it was as a source.
I'm talking here about the music. The lyrical content is apples and oranges. In that respect, I think Marley has been misunderstood and perhaps over-glamorized by a lot of people because very few understand what Rastafarianism is actually about. To call it "nutty" is to be kind. To call it racist or "black supremacist" would not be inaccurate. Go here and read if you're interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastafarianism
It's hard to say that an originator could be eclipsed by someone who has borrowed from them. Certainly the creative impulse that led to the invention of a new sound is something unique that can't be minimized. However, in listening to the two side by side, I have to say the Police managed to take the style of reggae epitomized by Bob Marley and the Wailers and use it in ways that went far beyond what it was as a source.
I'm talking here about the music. The lyrical content is apples and oranges. In that respect, I think Marley has been misunderstood and perhaps over-glamorized by a lot of people because very few understand what Rastafarianism is actually about. To call it "nutty" is to be kind. To call it racist or "black supremacist" would not be inaccurate. Go here and read if you're interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rastafarianism
- Wait and See
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by mudspoke on 07 Apr 2007 15:55
In Andy's book, [i]One Train Later[/i], Andy mentions that Stewart gave Sting some Bob Marley records over the holidays, and Sting came back ready to play reggae. So, clearly, Bob Marley had some influence on the Police.
Like Muddy Waters influencing the Stones, one cannot deny Bob Marley influencied the Police. Certainly, the Stones sound is different than Waters', and the Police sound is different than Marley's.
Because the music is different, I suppose it is possible to compare the two. My strong guess is that the Police would be uncomfortable with this comparison, much like many of us would be uncomfortable with a comparison involving someone who influenced us (like maybe our parents).
But please, oh please, do not bring politics and charges of racisim in this thread. Truthfully, I don't know enough about the events of the day when Marley wrote those songs, and I doubt most of us do, either, unless we were there or unless we've been studying that country's time period for about 10 years (the common definition of an expert).
One thing I do know is that I cannot trust wikipedia to be entirely accurate. Or even somewhat accurate.
Like Muddy Waters influencing the Stones, one cannot deny Bob Marley influencied the Police. Certainly, the Stones sound is different than Waters', and the Police sound is different than Marley's.
Because the music is different, I suppose it is possible to compare the two. My strong guess is that the Police would be uncomfortable with this comparison, much like many of us would be uncomfortable with a comparison involving someone who influenced us (like maybe our parents).
But please, oh please, do not bring politics and charges of racisim in this thread. Truthfully, I don't know enough about the events of the day when Marley wrote those songs, and I doubt most of us do, either, unless we were there or unless we've been studying that country's time period for about 10 years (the common definition of an expert).
One thing I do know is that I cannot trust wikipedia to be entirely accurate. Or even somewhat accurate.
Mudspoke
"If you don't like my arrogance you can suck my socks."
"If you don't like my arrogance you can suck my socks."
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by Divemistress of the Dark on 07 Apr 2007 16:03
What I don't get is why some folks think it's appropriate to come to a board that's hosted by Stewart and Gio, who work pretty hard to keep things on an even keel, and continue to post divisive comments about current events and politics.
This needs to be a message board, IMO, where a lot of folks can come to talk about music & be made to feel welcome, despite their age, sex, race, and political backgrounds. Take it somewhere else.
And on the topic at hand? There are hundreds of reggae bands just as accomplished as Bob Marley, many of which have been namechecked by Stewart over the years. Furthermore, Stewart himself has mentioned a few times that many folks overlooked the Middle Eastern influences in his music because reggae is much more accessible to U.S. audiences. Folks who think of music from other countries as something more than a "fad" might realize this.
This needs to be a message board, IMO, where a lot of folks can come to talk about music & be made to feel welcome, despite their age, sex, race, and political backgrounds. Take it somewhere else.
And on the topic at hand? There are hundreds of reggae bands just as accomplished as Bob Marley, many of which have been namechecked by Stewart over the years. Furthermore, Stewart himself has mentioned a few times that many folks overlooked the Middle Eastern influences in his music because reggae is much more accessible to U.S. audiences. Folks who think of music from other countries as something more than a "fad" might realize this.
On Google - site:stewartcopeland.net "your keyword here" - thanks DM!!
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by Wait and See on 07 Apr 2007 17:30
Well...the political comment was an aside, in response to someone else's comment. It usually is a bad idea, but sometimes it's hard to avoid. I will continue to try.
As for the point of the thread, I think everything I've said is factually accurate...and I didn't say "The Police rule, Marley sucks". Having gone through a relatively lengthy period earlier in life where I spent a considerable amount of time smoking "ganja" and listening to Bob Marley (I owned every one of his albums at one point), I'm pretty familiar with what I'm talking about. I always believed he was a musical genius, and that he was coming from some deep spiritual wisdom lyrically. That was until I actually looked into what he was talking about, and realized how bizarre it was. It falls somewhere in the same neighborhood as the Nation of Islam and the Black Panthers, but it's weirder than either.
Now, I still believe he was a musical genius, but I believe his genius was employed in the service of ideas that are not entirely...credible...or positive...
So when I say I think what the Police did with reggae surpassed the original in some respects, I have a variety of reasons for saying so. Part of it is the content, and part of it is the musicianship.
As for the point of the thread, I think everything I've said is factually accurate...and I didn't say "The Police rule, Marley sucks". Having gone through a relatively lengthy period earlier in life where I spent a considerable amount of time smoking "ganja" and listening to Bob Marley (I owned every one of his albums at one point), I'm pretty familiar with what I'm talking about. I always believed he was a musical genius, and that he was coming from some deep spiritual wisdom lyrically. That was until I actually looked into what he was talking about, and realized how bizarre it was. It falls somewhere in the same neighborhood as the Nation of Islam and the Black Panthers, but it's weirder than either.
Now, I still believe he was a musical genius, but I believe his genius was employed in the service of ideas that are not entirely...credible...or positive...
So when I say I think what the Police did with reggae surpassed the original in some respects, I have a variety of reasons for saying so. Part of it is the content, and part of it is the musicianship.
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by georgygirl on 08 Apr 2007 16:24
Really jedsoon?
Wow!
To me, this is very new interesting information about Bob Marley even if I don´t like it very much...
Wow!
To me, this is very new interesting information about Bob Marley even if I don´t like it very much...
Wildy Pelous!
¡Salvajilla Pelous!
from:
¡The Cosmic Race!
¡Salvajilla Pelous!
from:
¡The Cosmic Race!
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georgygirl - Posts: 4076
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by nathanarizona on 08 Apr 2007 18:34
Okay, since this thread has devolved into a discussion about politics and religion (never a good thing on a forum for a kick ass rock drummer) I'm going to try and end it on a positive note. Back in the mid-80's there was a horrible movie made starring one of Bill Murray's younger brothers called Moving Violations. Just an awful movie. ANYWAY, there's a scene in the beginning where Murray walks into a defensive driving class and acts like he's the instructor. He walks by a guy taking the class who has dredlocks and looks just like Bob Marley and says, "Hey man, I've got all your albums, you're the greatest!"
So...back to Stewart Copeland kicking ass and we're all going to see The Police this year!
So...back to Stewart Copeland kicking ass and we're all going to see The Police this year!
'Cause it won't satiate your growing appetite
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by Wait and See on 09 Apr 2007 23:17
>>> To me, this is very new interesting information about Bob Marley even if I don´t like it very much... <<<
You probably shouldn't listen to Sting's last album, then...
(Sacred Love, not the lute album)
You probably shouldn't listen to Sting's last album, then...
(Sacred Love, not the lute album)
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