The Great Copeland Drum Sound

[drummike]

Hi, folks. Regarding Stewart's drum sound, I feel like it took a big leap forward with the third album, compared with the first two. The fourth album was even better, and the fifth was about the same as the fourth. On Zenyatta Mondatta, it seems like the drums (apparently the mahogany-stain birch Superstars) sound higher in pitch and stand out in the overall mix better. The drums on the fourth and fifth albums (back to the 9-ply Imperialstars) sound incredibly good, with crackling high pitches and loud as hell. I would love to have been in the control room listening to the drums tracks for Ghost or Synchronicity.

It would be easy enough to give credit to recording in Holland for the improved drum sound on ZM, and Hugh Padgam or the AIR studio for the much improved sound on the 4th & 5th albums, but the drums also sound better on the live recordings I've heard, starting with Boston '79 and continuing into the '80-'81 tours and beyond. I like to give credit for the improved sound to Jeff Seitz, but I'm not sure exactly when he arrived on the scene (I'm guessing sometime in 1980) and what the state of SC's sound was at the time when Jeff joined. Anyone have any thoughts or ideas? Maybe Jeff himself could shed some light on the development of Stewart's sound. The bottom line for me is that Stewart's sound, rhythmic innovations, and overall energy have had a big effect on my opinion on what drums should sound like and how they fit into a band's total mix. Thanks.

[smax]

i do LOVE the drum sound on zenyata, really crisp and lovely.........a slight aside.... i recall people talking about he sloping roof at surrey sound studios(outlandos and reggatta)and the fact that stews kit was moved around to get different sounds due to the change in acoustics.... it may be understandable that the improved facilities at the later studios were responsible for the better sound, surrey sound did used to be a dairy and was, erm, at the cheaper end of facilities.

but you're right, it's probably down to saint jeff.

[drummike]

I didn't know that Surrey had a sloping roof, but that's interesting. Thanks.

[Spec A!]

Sorry I don't have much to add, other than Zenyatta was the turning point for me as a drummer. Listening to and dissecting those drum parts and that sound are forever burned into my soul. THAT's the quintessential SC sound, and what I strived to have my set sound like for many many years. Only now, 20 some odd years later am I really more open to different tom and snare sounds.

This may be sacrelitious to many here, but I was never a fan of the Ghost or Sync drums sounds- felt like they were over produced and lost the raw naturalness that Zenyatta had.

[drummike]

Shadows In The Rain and the drum intro to Man In A Suitcase are two great examples of a great drum sound.

[zilboy]

Sorry I don't have much to add, other than Zenyatta was the turning point for me as a drummer. Listening to and dissecting those drum parts and that sound are forever burned into my soul. THAT's the quintessential SC sound, and what I strived to have my set sound like for many many years. Only now, 20 some odd years later am I really more open to different tom and snare sounds.

This may be sacrelitious to many here, but I was never a fan of the Ghost or Sync drums sounds- felt like they were over produced and lost the raw naturalness that Zenyatta had.

I've always felt that Stewart's sound had really arrived when Ghost came out. To my ears, it's just a more polished Zenyatta sound. I agree that the sound on Syncro was just awful - tinny, too bright, over-produced. I'm actually enjoying the sounds he's getting from his current setup. I feel that they match his maturation very well - nice blend of both highs and lows, attack and warmth.

[drummike]

I may have to go back and have another listen to the fifth album. Does anyone feel that the initial CD release sounded worse than the LP or cassette? I know some people complain about the harshness of CDs from the 80s. Not sure when Synchronicity was released on CD; was it available in '83 or did it come out later? I first bought the album on LP and didn't actually hear it on CD until the Message In A Box set came out.

[smax]

zenyatta is increasingly my favourite long player.


Mostly 'cos the intro to BOMBS AWAY is FUCKING FANTASTIC

and

the shit he does to perk up the could-be-tedious-as-it-essentially-only-has-two-ideas-in-it VOICES IN MY HEAD.

straight beat with some lovely hi-hat stuff til the vocals come in, then once the vox are there he pulls back a bit for the first time through, second time through throws in some ride, then after the CHA's he's off like a mother-fucker for the last minute... stupifyingly ace.

[zilboy]

zenyatta is increasingly my favourite long player.


Mostly 'cos the intro to BOMBS AWAY is FUCKING FANTASTIC

and

the shit he does to perk up the could-be-tedious-as-it-essentially-only-has-two-ideas-in-it VOICES IN MY HEAD.

straight beat with some lovely hi-hat stuff til the vocals come in, then once the vox are there he pulls back a bit for the first time through, second time through throws in some ride, then after the CHA's he's off like a mother-fucker for the last minute... stupifyingly ace.

Yeah, some mighty fine echo stuff happening there. It takes a few brain cells to know what will work with echo and what won't.

Everything on that LP is so friggin' crystal clear

[Rusty James]

Stewart's signature snare sound was what captured me, hook line and sinker. I've wasted many a brand new snare drum head, cinching that thing up tight to emulate that unmistakable Copeland sound. Bar none, Zenyatta has been my enduring favourite, even now, playing along to Voices Inside My Head is still soooooo much fun.

I never owned a digital/CD version of Synchronicity, still don't. That said, I always wanted my splash cymbals to sound like the ones you hear on Wrapped and Tea.

[drummike]

Rusty, I haven't popped any snare heads, but I've had several 70s/80s vintage Tama and Pearl 5x14 snares, some of which could reach that high pitch and some that couldn't. I don't know if it was a difference in the lugs or what. I even changed the lugs on one Tama to another with no difference in tunability. Once I finally had a couple of drums that were satisfactory, I sold off the ones that couldn't hack it. But once I found that first chrome Tama that would hit the pitch, I was very happy. I haven't bothered to invest in the SC signature model yet, since I've been so happy with these old models. Anybody else have similar situations with snare tuning?

[zilboy]

Got a pretty decent sound from my old Ludwig Supraphonic back in the day. I'm a wood shell guy now. My green sparkle Starclassic Maple (with re-rings) comes awfully close, as does my Starclassic Performer birch, but I'm happiest with my Sonor Designer Maple Light, which is not as tightly tuned these days. I do have the Tama Copeland drum, but it's in hibernation awaiting its re-emergence with my yet-to-be-completed Starclassic Bubinga kit.

[drummike]

I forgot about the Bombs Away intro...it is very cool. Not everyone would think to hit the toms and snare in that order.

[jeffseitz]

[quote="drummike"]I forgot about the Bombs Away intro...it is very cool. Not everyone would think to hit the toms and snare in that order.[/quote]

Try being a lefty playing a right handed drum set! LOL

[BongoBoy]

Obviously I agree with all these comments of course.

I used to stare at the photo's on the back of the Zenyatta LP for hours. Sting n the stand up bass, Stewart with the taped fingers resting on his snare, the great looking studio. That is what really made me want to record.

Intro to Bombs away is legend to me.

I Love Voices in my head too. Ghost has the mind boggling One World, one of the best reggae/rock drum tracks ever.

I thought everyone here had a Tama Stewart signature snare ? It is the perfect snare. Nothing even come close to it's beautifulness for me anyway. Get one.
Also, the bootleg Crooked Cops may have limited sound quality but I love the drum sound, it is my favorite.

Jeff rules.
BB.