Gordo calls X- Factor "TV karaoke"

[TOWOS]

Precisely. If you don't do the hard work you will never be great. That is absolutely true. I do not agree about the fact that there is no room for creativity and free artistic expression in the world of today - the jam-band circuit is proof of that, and artists like Wilco, My Morning Jacket, Beck, Flaming Lips, not to mention the" newnewnouvelle vague" (ask Gina and/or Dive that are much better informed and qualified on the happening scene). These groups have gone "The Police route" and worked their butts off BEFORE attaining fame.

What I think is that when you go to a TV talent show of The Cowell Ilk, the really hard work comes AFTER you are "discovered" - you sell your soul to the devil and to break free of that A19 contract with which they OWN you and change you from A to Z - forget all you had in mind or artistic integrity - is a very difficult enterprise. If you have little or no talent, you can last one hit, but you are going straight into the bargain bin with your second recording. And who can bear to be forgotten, Bowie (another one who sweated blood to Make It) sang.

OTOH, you cannot blame the people who went there first 10 years ago, but as of now, if you are in a struggling band or sing in bars and decide to try for AI, you know exactly what you are going to get. It all depends on what you want to attain: money and status and related perks, or push the envelope and be an inspiration to many?
There are also people who have given The Hard Way an ample shot and for which the TV talent show is the last attempt. These are people who weren't given a free ride.

Talent is an asset - I think that the difference lies in how you use it and what is really important for you as an artist. In any case, It's not like anybody in this diatribe can speak for absolute artistic integrity (Jaguar commercials, anyone?) - sometimes you just do what you gotta do - easy to speak when you're satiated and the fire in the guts has long gone.

Very interesting subject - I agree

[smax]

some lazy, reactionary, short, sarcastic reponses from the smax jury.

The Who Sell Out.

Gordo should do the X-Factor and make them all do Gabriels Message. That'd pull in the punters....

Not sure i can buy the comment saying that the talent in the US is vastly better than 'ere, but then i would say that, plus it's not true...

Is there a difference between Triumph Bra adverts and Wrigleys; and Jaguar ads? Is it about Exposure or Fame or money or just sucking the bill hicksian coroporate cock?

every artist has the freedom to produce what they want, but not necessarily the means to record effectively or widely publicise the result. You can push the envelope all you want but if no one knows about it; what does it matter? You can sit, starving, in your garret knowing you're great while everyone outside is loving the new jack vettriano print and listening to Robbie Williams' new single.

[TOWOS]

'Zactly, smaxx - and forgive me for putting down the British and Italian talent shows I witnessed (including the one that had Our Maestro among its judges, of course): compared to the people who I have seen on AI, and not necessarily only the successful ones - most of them sound - and move - like donkeys).

There are those who starve and toil their entire lives and end up listening to Robbie Williams - but oh, did they work very hard as the Bard recommends and keep their integrity. Then there are those who think: why should I be an idiot and sing in this karaoke bar/piano bar/night club/shit pub forever and say "eff it" and go audition to sell their souls to the Devil (Cowell would make a great devil, dontcha agree??).

The Eternal Dilemma.

Sometimes the people who toil and starve are in the right place at the right time, get to know the right people and their talent gets exposure, gets recognized, act smart, and there you have it. Stars!

Sometimes the unknown starving ones with unquestionable talent hit the jackpot only to fall into the traps, discover that it's not what it's cracked up to be, get paranoid about selling out, and end up shooting themselves in the head.

Other times risible prefab muzak disposers make it for a while, get the mazuma and the traps and get exposed for who they are and forgotten as soon as their younger or prettier clones arrive on the market (Hello Britney? Spice Girls? Ashlee Simpson? Soon- exposed -to-be Hannah Montana?)

Now let's go to the pub, quench our thirst and listen to what is playing tonight....

[BongoBoy]

Despise these shows, hate covers done like that. Pure liquid evil...in my opinion. Cowell is very smart by suppling this drivel to the masses, lapping it up.

I could never understand these shows (I mean the mostly singing ones). There are a lot of great singers out there, so what ?

I will take an "artist" (creates, writes words, thinks) even if he/she is rough n crappy, any day. On the street I see way more of a vibe from a busker.

I am not saying others shouldn't like the shows, as a musician it makes me want to throw up.

If these "singers" Love music so much? where are there own creations?

Blah, bah, humbuggers !

BongoJudgeAndJury O !
BB.

[smax]

nice points T and B...

i guess it's easy to judge... i've got loadsa friends who make a living from playing music... BUT they have to water down their horizons and invariably end up playing in covers bands playing the same shit songs to the baying, cheese-hungry crowd just so they can do their own stuff...... is there really any difference between doing that and going on the Xfactor?

i guess the clear difference is the creativity (let's exclude those who 'just' sing and wiggle their hips, shall we?)...the desire / need to create something new and inspiring (although no one creates music with the aim inspiring others and if they do then they're a fraud)....

but then if you won the xfactor and milked that particular cash cow then you'd be able to have a gorgeous 48 track analogue studio in your outhouse filled with lovely instruments... so what does it matter?

for me ; one can intellectualise about the merits or otherwise of these shows; but the truth is that they're just cack!

[TOWOS]

[quote][/quote]for me ; one can intellectualise about the merits or otherwise of these shows; but the truth is that they're just cack![/quote]

Absofookin'lutely!!! Enjoy a clip from the Italian series (complete with incessant, shouted comment of Berlusconi's muzak team - at least AI does not have THAT too):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE7mmQho ... re=related

Talented people/Delusional people/Marketing/Tv Ratings etc etc...

That does not mean that all the people who end up on there by sheer desperation after not getting a break haven't worked Ha:d enuff!!!

[luddite lady]

I have a friend whose nephew was on one of those idol shows, and he got knocked off early, just as his uncle predicted would happen. In his dear uncle's assessment, the guy was just too creative and individual to make it on a show of that format. "He's a songwriter first and foremost. He belongs in a bar. He's going to get slaughtered on that show." The uncle was actually kind of proud when the boy got the boot.

Good on Sting. I love smax's idea of having the contestants sing Gabriel's Message.

[Peanut]

He's entirely right in every respect - but instead of people discussing it to death they should ask why do these "public service" programmes such as X Factor exist?

I think one of the main reasons it's a surefire hit with the public at large is that the format works and has created public appeal for people such as Leona Lewis, Will Young to name but a few (or the only ones I can think of LOL)

But I see it personally as a different arena to what I like - some people like to eat Cheesecake, others prefer Caviar.

I do think more should be done to help out groups though - there's a severe lack of funding for them over here and a lot of talent goes un-nurtured (I'm not sure how it works overseas). I think that's "where it's at" so to speak, an equal share for all is what should be worked towards.

I don't like X-Factor as much as the next person, but rather than make a comment on it, maybe people with the same weight that Sting has should fund a organisation to help kids starting out in bands?

Otherwise it's a throwaway statement, as reactionary as chip paper.

-P- xXx

[policefan]

Susan Boyle did quite well...


http://www.vancouversun.com/entertainme ... story.html

Please don't throw anything at me.... I am happy for her.