OT- The Health care reforms

[vespapod]

House of reps passed this bill so I am going to send for a copy of the 2000 page document, read it over and let everybody know my opinion.

My assumption is that it is enough paper to provide all nutters with toilet paper for an entire year with some left over for Sting, and maybe the missus too!!

However...it is a start so we should keep an open mind...

[smudge]

[quote="vespapod"]House of reps passed this bill so I am going to send for a copy of the 2000 page document, read it over and let everybody know my opinion.

My assumption is that it is enough paper to provide all nutters with toilet paper for an entire year with some left over for Sting, and maybe the missus too!!

However...it is a start so we should keep an open mind...[/quote]

I'm in the UK - so despite being american, to some extent it is none of my business. But just wanted to say how much I appreciated your last sentence vespapod, particularly as you are a practitioner. It's possibly a whole lot of compromise loo paper, but it may be a start.

The set up with health care in the UK is very, very different from what the US has now, and what this legislation (if it is enacted) will deliver. In the interests of 'open minds', please feel free to email me (kate simon 68 @ yahoo dot co dot uk) for a warts and all 'socialised medicine' fact check (probably best dealt with off here). And yes, warts are dealt with for free by the National Health Service. It ain't perfect, but we don't have 'death panels'. This is Europe, not Logan's Run.

[Tamadude]

If it's going to be anything like the Canadian system then get ready to open your wallets, because we get taxed through the yinyang into oblivion for our "free" healthcare system. People say that our system is great, and it can be, but it's far from perfect. Some people soak the system, others don't need it for thier entire lives. Some are lucky, some are not. Some make smart descisions, others make dumb ones. None of that really matters though, because we all pay regardless like it or not.

Tax tax tax tax tax. That's the Canadian way.

Here's hoping that whatever happens is the right and fair thing for all Americans.



ps. I'm looking forward to your poignant opinion as usual, vespa.

[vespapod]

Well I already had my opinion about government handouts getting out of hand...it breeds laziness...BUT in this case being on both sides of the track -something needs to be done...I want to protect my physician rights but then again my own healthcare insurance went up 16 % this year. It would be so much easier for consolidation...the problem is people that work hard and have benefits dont want to give up their rights...the other side..the people on the dole are jumping for joy at more goodies.....if this was solved years ago before we created this "welfare state" healthcare reform would have been accepted easily. Now I see another huge government program being created and massive taxes levied on the middle and upper class which we dont need right now. I can guarantee you this...no large corporation will be increasing their employment numbers due to healthcare costs so this unemployment is only gonna stagnate or get worse.

[conroy]

It still has to pass the Senate which is less likely to pass it than the House did. And if the legislation does pass, I'm sure it'll be full of pork.

[vespapod]

The senate will probably maul it somewhat...they can still filibuster it too!

[Kim]

First of all, did I see that they passed this without the public being able to read it? WTF is that?

[63falcon]

Hmmm.....been conciously NOT chiming in on the political OT's, at least have kept it bare bones.....I am one of the "uninsured", for most of 20 years, who would end up being put in prison for not buying and not being able to pay an outrageous $25K fine!! But then NancyP gotta' keep getting her botox touch-up's.....
I do actually have paid sick leave at one of my 2 PT jobs, which I have accrued over 148 hrs of because I KEEP MYSELF HEALTHY-w/out BigBro Gov.. The whole Constitutionality of the pay or go to the slammer provision is in question, too.
One of my cousins lived/worked in Canada for abt. 10 yrs, and her taxes on a modest middle income were eye-buggin'! When she was pregnant & in maternity leave, the Health care was great (gotta' make sure that brand new tax payer is ok), but afterwards forget it.
My Liberal boyfriend, who is having huge Presidential buyer's remorse, is also not happy w/ this. My BF smokes some and has already felt the Thumb in his back on that alone.
My health, and any consequences, have been and are MY responsibility alone.
Whew!! This IS the LAST time I do a polit. OT. Will stick w/ history, promise

[vespapod]

Glad you did chime in....my own arguments are that if your gonna have universal healthcare your gonna have taxes and more taxes and I think we are stretched as it is...the government needs to take the money from somewhere else...All America does deserve some type of "good" healthcare (dont get me started on medicaid...Im a doctor and Ill shoot you down quick!). That said, some of these other entirely wasteful handouts need to be reevaluated to make it fair for everyone without an overburdened tax system...that is causing unemployment because businesses are overburdened, both with healthcare costs and taxes...

[Tamadude]

Actually, I don't mind paying taxes, and I'm grateful to live where I do. Really I am. But what really burns my ring is when said tax funds get abused, misallocated, and/or frivolously squandered. All I want is value but all the red tape and beaurocracy makes that seemingly impossible.

[conroy]

The question is whether the plan they passed will really help the people for whom it is intended. On the one hand, you've got the out of control insurance companies lobbying only for their self-interests and not doctors or their patients. On the other hand, you've got a government that can't even get a grip on the fraud plagued Medicare program as featured on 60 Minutes a few weeks ago http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/ ... 4390.shtml. I can only imagine there would be even more fraud with a program covering millions more people. The abortion debate to me is a distraction that continues to take precious time away from the issues that the politicians need to be discussing with the health care plan. So I'm skeptical that anything of substance will come out of all of this in the long run.

[Divemistress of the Dark]

Well, the issue is that the U.S. has both the most expensive and the least effective insurance system in the developed world. I'll agree there's tons of fraud and inefficiency, but I'll disagree vehemently as to the causes.

I think a goodly portion of the blame should be laid at the feet of folks in our society who misuse the legal system, as in suing for every little thing. Allegedly doctors are ordering tons of unnecessary testing to reinforce themselves from threats of lawsuit - etc. Also, I keep reading these stories about pharmaceutical companies racking up billions in profits, playing politics with the FDA to keep their drug patents in-house, etc. I'm all for private enterprise and the right of folks to make profits, but the untrammeled greed of a few interests in our society has been running roughshod. I'd like to see someone put the brakes on.

Also, Americans have a ginormous entitlement complex (including self, of course). Everybody wants the best and most effective healthcare for themselves, only they want to pay as little as possible.

Of course, this is a problem writ large - extremely large where I live, in a state without an income tax but a 10% sales tax on everything including food. It's absolutely insane. This scheme might work in Hawaii, but assuredly won't in TN, which has SEVEN other states with lower sales tax within an hour or so drive. But, you know, the important thing is that we pay no income tax - nevermind what this harebrained strategy's doing to our small business base, folks trying to feed several children, or anyone buying supplies to actually run a business. (Also, we wind up paying tons more Federal tax here because deduction of high state taxes triggers the AMT - trust me on that one.)

Services like paved roads, schools and health care cost something. Yep, some people's taxes might go up. But I for one am sick and tired of folks who are in favor of things like containing costs overall, and leveling the playing field, being depicted as out of touch whackos (this rant is more directed to idiots in TN than anyone here, BTW.) I'd be all for tighter regulation of the drug companies and Big Insurance. And better regulation of how much money they can give, and to whom, frankly.

And hey, Smudge - Europe may not be Logan's Run, but you guys are certainly being used as the boogeyman by the mouthbreathers lately. Heaven forbid anyone actually think about giving back to society, instead of exploiting every available mechanism to enrich one's own pocketbook.