OT: Sting's Toronto Set List - 21 May 2009
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by Police Boy on 27 May 2009 00:55
I think some of you need to accept that Sting will be doing the solo thing now. I think we all agree that Police songs will always be better as performed by The Police, but let's give the guy a break. If he had done the lute thing at this show, he would have been criticized. In my mind, he does exactly what he should have done (ie. combo of Police and solo hits) given the type of show, so I think he should be praised for a setlist that made the most sense. While they are not Andy and Stewart, Vinnie, Dominic and David are certainly top musicians. Only thing that still gets me is how 'scripted' Sting continues to be (ie. says "Toronto how you doing" during the same point in the 1st chorus of Message).
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by sockii on 27 May 2009 01:34
Oh, I've totally accepted it - doesn't mean I'm personally interested in following it (though I would go to a lute show).
I have a "thing" where I just can't get into hearing him do Police songs on his own. It's a personal squick, so I'm better off not subjecting myself to it.
I have a "thing" where I just can't get into hearing him do Police songs on his own. It's a personal squick, so I'm better off not subjecting myself to it.
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by DirtyMartini on 27 May 2009 16:42
Yup, totally accepted here as well. Sting is a squeezebox of talent; I just don't happen to like the sound that comes out of him when he's alone. I'm okay with that.
I do wonder what the rest of the non-tour tour that Sting seems to be putting together will look like. Someone at TP.com (lisaspear, was it you?) pointed out that this was a charity show, so the set may have been influenced by that; Sting-only solo shows aren't generally so thickly Policey. But -- okay, I've got a question: who is Sting's audience? Who is it that he wants to sell seats to? Yeah, he wants to sell to everyone, sure, but he has to gear his efforts/setlist toward Somebody. So who exactly is that Somebody?
Bear with me as I need to backtrack:
Two givens:
1. The Police sells.
2. Sting's not an idiot.
Both have been proven, and I'm going to grant them as minimum requirements.
Pre-2007, Sting sold, but he sold better in the 80s and early 90s than he does in the 2000s. He has continued to work and tour (and tour and tour some more) and generate some buzz, but that buzz just isn't quite as big and buzzy as it once was. Time and tastes move on. Sting has enough money that he doesn't *need* to do popular work in order to stay out of foreclosure; he could spend the rest of his days doing obscure lute and tuba albums if he wanted, but over the long-term, he seems more inclined toward more popular projects. His name has remained a household name -- though I'd say more because he has remained on the public scene and less because of what he has produced in recent years.
So Sting's solo career could use a boost, and since he's not an idiot and since the Police sells, he does the Broken Music tour: Police Lite with much of the same music but more easily controlled musicians and conditions. Test audiences show that reaction to the Police tunes is good, so wham, bam, thank you, LiveNation, we're all on a Police reunion tour roller coaster. (Yeah, Andy and Stewart were involved, too, but I'm just looking at the one guy and ignoring the rest right now.) Money is made, buzz is generated, Sting's back on the covers of a lot of magazines, lots of reviewers remark how good it is to see Sting rocking out rather than lite-jazzing. OK.
Fast-forward to 2009. Sting goes back to solo appearances; he goes back to more easily controlled musicians and conditions -- which, while I personally don't enjoy the music that results, I can understand (I'm pretty sure Sting, Andy, or Stewart and I would murder each other working together); he gets to ride some of the buzz that was generated from the Police tour and use it in his next efforts.
But now what? A lot of his solo audience was built of Police fans who had no other way of experiencing Police tunes -- but now they have. He just handed to those people exactly what it was they were missing. I don't doubt that the Police tour picked up a few new disciples for Sting (as for Andy and Stewart), but I also don't doubt that it lost a few on him who, now that they have had the chance to witness the actual Police, just don't want to settle for Police Lite.
So should he aim his efforts toward the casual Sting/Police fans who want to hear the hits that they know from the radio? Those were all those people at concerts who pissed us off for only wanting to hear "EBYT" and "Roxanne," but they also seemed to be the vast majority of folks in the stands. They shelled out $250 for the Police, but will they do it again for Sting alone? And now that they've seen the Police, do they need to?
He'll continue to have Sting Solo Fans, of course -- but how many of them would rather hear more Sting Solo than Police tunes? He has written far more songs without the Police than with them, but that Toronto setlist looks a lot like a greatest hits album and is 50% Police. (If Management puts out another Sting & The Police greatest hits album, I'll scream.) Yeah, it's a charity event, but doesn't that then say *more* about what is considered marketable?
Before the reunion tour, Sting had the advantage of being the only Police game in town. While he will continue to be so, he just ruined a bunch of his audience with the Real Thing. I'm guessing he'll go back to the usual solo setlists that include a couple of token Police songs as he has done so far, but if he does, he's preaching to the pre-reunion converted, so how does that take advantage of new audiences? Too much Sting pisses off Police fans; too much Police pisses off Sting fans; the Radio Hits Fans piss off pretty much everyone, but they're probably the most profitable.
The Police tour had a big vein of nostalgia to it, but all but one of those songs that Sting played in Toronto is more than 15 years old; "Desert Rose" is the baby at only 10. I laughed at George's comment, but while those tunes still have life to them, I've only now realized just how far back all those tunes go. The reunion tour may have brought Sting some new headlines, but without something new to feed to his audience, I think I'm failing to understand how it's going to help in the long-run.
ETA: Like Police Boy, I would also vote to can the canned banter.
I do wonder what the rest of the non-tour tour that Sting seems to be putting together will look like. Someone at TP.com (lisaspear, was it you?) pointed out that this was a charity show, so the set may have been influenced by that; Sting-only solo shows aren't generally so thickly Policey. But -- okay, I've got a question: who is Sting's audience? Who is it that he wants to sell seats to? Yeah, he wants to sell to everyone, sure, but he has to gear his efforts/setlist toward Somebody. So who exactly is that Somebody?
Bear with me as I need to backtrack:
Two givens:
1. The Police sells.
2. Sting's not an idiot.
Both have been proven, and I'm going to grant them as minimum requirements.
Pre-2007, Sting sold, but he sold better in the 80s and early 90s than he does in the 2000s. He has continued to work and tour (and tour and tour some more) and generate some buzz, but that buzz just isn't quite as big and buzzy as it once was. Time and tastes move on. Sting has enough money that he doesn't *need* to do popular work in order to stay out of foreclosure; he could spend the rest of his days doing obscure lute and tuba albums if he wanted, but over the long-term, he seems more inclined toward more popular projects. His name has remained a household name -- though I'd say more because he has remained on the public scene and less because of what he has produced in recent years.
So Sting's solo career could use a boost, and since he's not an idiot and since the Police sells, he does the Broken Music tour: Police Lite with much of the same music but more easily controlled musicians and conditions. Test audiences show that reaction to the Police tunes is good, so wham, bam, thank you, LiveNation, we're all on a Police reunion tour roller coaster. (Yeah, Andy and Stewart were involved, too, but I'm just looking at the one guy and ignoring the rest right now.) Money is made, buzz is generated, Sting's back on the covers of a lot of magazines, lots of reviewers remark how good it is to see Sting rocking out rather than lite-jazzing. OK.
Fast-forward to 2009. Sting goes back to solo appearances; he goes back to more easily controlled musicians and conditions -- which, while I personally don't enjoy the music that results, I can understand (I'm pretty sure Sting, Andy, or Stewart and I would murder each other working together); he gets to ride some of the buzz that was generated from the Police tour and use it in his next efforts.
But now what? A lot of his solo audience was built of Police fans who had no other way of experiencing Police tunes -- but now they have. He just handed to those people exactly what it was they were missing. I don't doubt that the Police tour picked up a few new disciples for Sting (as for Andy and Stewart), but I also don't doubt that it lost a few on him who, now that they have had the chance to witness the actual Police, just don't want to settle for Police Lite.
So should he aim his efforts toward the casual Sting/Police fans who want to hear the hits that they know from the radio? Those were all those people at concerts who pissed us off for only wanting to hear "EBYT" and "Roxanne," but they also seemed to be the vast majority of folks in the stands. They shelled out $250 for the Police, but will they do it again for Sting alone? And now that they've seen the Police, do they need to?
He'll continue to have Sting Solo Fans, of course -- but how many of them would rather hear more Sting Solo than Police tunes? He has written far more songs without the Police than with them, but that Toronto setlist looks a lot like a greatest hits album and is 50% Police. (If Management puts out another Sting & The Police greatest hits album, I'll scream.) Yeah, it's a charity event, but doesn't that then say *more* about what is considered marketable?
Before the reunion tour, Sting had the advantage of being the only Police game in town. While he will continue to be so, he just ruined a bunch of his audience with the Real Thing. I'm guessing he'll go back to the usual solo setlists that include a couple of token Police songs as he has done so far, but if he does, he's preaching to the pre-reunion converted, so how does that take advantage of new audiences? Too much Sting pisses off Police fans; too much Police pisses off Sting fans; the Radio Hits Fans piss off pretty much everyone, but they're probably the most profitable.
The Police tour had a big vein of nostalgia to it, but all but one of those songs that Sting played in Toronto is more than 15 years old; "Desert Rose" is the baby at only 10. I laughed at George's comment, but while those tunes still have life to them, I've only now realized just how far back all those tunes go. The reunion tour may have brought Sting some new headlines, but without something new to feed to his audience, I think I'm failing to understand how it's going to help in the long-run.
ETA: Like Police Boy, I would also vote to can the canned banter.
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DirtyMartini - Posts: 9622
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by Divemistress of the Dark on 27 May 2009 18:12
I think he doesn't *know* what to do. Which is one way his caution and unwillingness to take risks hurts him.
They should have made a new album. Even if it hadn't pleased all the Radio-Hits heads, it would have likely been more profitable, in the sense of new material, going forward.
They should have made a new album. Even if it hadn't pleased all the Radio-Hits heads, it would have likely been more profitable, in the sense of new material, going forward.
On Google - site:stewartcopeland.net "your keyword here" - thanks DM!!
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by luddite lady on 27 May 2009 20:07
[quote="Divemistress of the Dark"]I think he doesn't *know* what to do. Which is one way his caution and unwillingness to take risks hurts him.
They should have made a new album. Even if it hadn't pleased all the Radio-Hits heads, it would have likely been more profitable, in the sense of new material, going forward.[/quote]
I think Dive got it right with the album idea, but it would likely have been released posthumously since our three boys would have killed each other in the making of it.
And damn, DM! You often articulate things that I'm thinking but don't have the brain power to explain. Thank you. Could you now write a piece for my kids on the importance of a clean bedroom, or at least one where you can see the floor?
They should have made a new album. Even if it hadn't pleased all the Radio-Hits heads, it would have likely been more profitable, in the sense of new material, going forward.[/quote]
I think Dive got it right with the album idea, but it would likely have been released posthumously since our three boys would have killed each other in the making of it.
And damn, DM! You often articulate things that I'm thinking but don't have the brain power to explain. Thank you. Could you now write a piece for my kids on the importance of a clean bedroom, or at least one where you can see the floor?
In Dallas, the only game that really mattered was in the word gamelan.
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luddite lady - Posts: 2224
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by Throb on 27 May 2009 20:46
Seems like Nostalgia II.
This was a reunion of the Soul Cages era four piece, so it makes sense the solo stuff is from that era with the most recent biggest hit Desert Rose tossed in as an obvious crowd pleaser. Perhaps there was limited rehearsal time for this one off gig, no month in “Stingdom” and Sting went with material the band was familiar with(1993 and prior)framed by the Police material he knows from playing a hundred plus dates right down to the banter.
So yeah, low marks on originality.
Who knows what’s next or whom he will call? The Blue Turtles Band? Will he email Wynton the set list?
Alas we don’t have Kenny so it can’t be a true reunion.
And yes, DM if you could also whip up a piece explaining to a teenager the importance of having a desk you can see and actually use rather than piling tons of crap on that would be great to.
This was a reunion of the Soul Cages era four piece, so it makes sense the solo stuff is from that era with the most recent biggest hit Desert Rose tossed in as an obvious crowd pleaser. Perhaps there was limited rehearsal time for this one off gig, no month in “Stingdom” and Sting went with material the band was familiar with(1993 and prior)framed by the Police material he knows from playing a hundred plus dates right down to the banter.
So yeah, low marks on originality.
Who knows what’s next or whom he will call? The Blue Turtles Band? Will he email Wynton the set list?
Alas we don’t have Kenny so it can’t be a true reunion.
And yes, DM if you could also whip up a piece explaining to a teenager the importance of having a desk you can see and actually use rather than piling tons of crap on that would be great to.
Have we got touchdown
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Throb - Posts: 1162
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by Police Boy on 27 May 2009 23:38
Excellent points DM. I especially agree with your point about Sting perhaps losing fans now that many have experienced the real thing with the reunion tour.
Who knows what's next for Sting?? Aside from these seemingly "special event" shows, I would actually prefer a return to the Blue Turtles era sound, but really don't think that will happen. Don't care at all for the lute stuff myself and was very disappointed with Sacred Love.
I just found out today that tickets for the show with Sheryl Crow were selling the day of the event for the low price of $20 given that they apparently had trouble selling tickets at regular price. I definitely would have gone had I known.
Who knows what's next for Sting?? Aside from these seemingly "special event" shows, I would actually prefer a return to the Blue Turtles era sound, but really don't think that will happen. Don't care at all for the lute stuff myself and was very disappointed with Sacred Love.
I just found out today that tickets for the show with Sheryl Crow were selling the day of the event for the low price of $20 given that they apparently had trouble selling tickets at regular price. I definitely would have gone had I known.
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by Divemistress of the Dark on 28 May 2009 03:30
Nah, when I say "they should've made a new album" what I really mean is "Sting should have quit being a wanker, then they should have made a new album."
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know there are three personalities involved and I'm sure they get on each other's nerves, etc., but I stand by my earlier observations that it appeared SC and AS were doing a lot more accommodating of Mr. Sumner than the other way round.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know there are three personalities involved and I'm sure they get on each other's nerves, etc., but I stand by my earlier observations that it appeared SC and AS were doing a lot more accommodating of Mr. Sumner than the other way round.
On Google - site:stewartcopeland.net "your keyword here" - thanks DM!!
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by Kim on 28 May 2009 04:08
Uh, recently I have come to the conclusion that I never really liked Sting's solo stuff as much as I thought I did. I was just the closest to the Real Thing I thought I would ever get. Now that I have experienced the Real Thing and it's over, uh, I think I can admit that while I love the guy and will always respect him, he's jumped the shark. His well is dry, he realizes he's up the creek without a paddle (or his buddies) and he's at a loss for what to do next. Broadway? Films? Jazz? Lame soft rock? Lute? Been there, done that. Next? Nothin'. I'm glad I passed on the Foxwoods show. I never even considered going. 
If my husband ever saw this post he would say I've finally gone off the deep end, lol.
If my husband ever saw this post he would say I've finally gone off the deep end, lol.yo!!
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by Ramuthra on 28 May 2009 16:55
Dive, how can you say Sting doesn't take risks?? How about "Dream of the Blue Turltles", or "Songs From the Labrynth"? 
I really don't think these guys would have needed more than a couple hours of rehearsal time. Dominic and Vinnie know all the tunes back from Soul Cages anyway.
As for Sting, I think he just does whatever he thinks will make the most people listen to his music, that's all. In that vein, a lot gets compromised...
...but he also sells over a hundred million records, so what can you do
I really don't think these guys would have needed more than a couple hours of rehearsal time. Dominic and Vinnie know all the tunes back from Soul Cages anyway.
As for Sting, I think he just does whatever he thinks will make the most people listen to his music, that's all. In that vein, a lot gets compromised...
...but he also sells over a hundred million records, so what can you do
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by TheEqualizer on 28 May 2009 17:22
[quote="Johnny O"]Didn't Manu play the Soul Cages Tour? I know he was on the album, but I thought he was in the band when I saw that tour... I thought Vinnie joined the band for 10 Sumner's Tales...[/quote]
Vinnie toured for Soul Cages. His first appearance on a Sting record was 10 Sumner's Tales.
Vinnie toured for Soul Cages. His first appearance on a Sting record was 10 Sumner's Tales.
There is no bigger gong.
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by luddite lady on 30 May 2009 05:41
[quote="Police Boy"]
I just found out today that tickets for the show with Sheryl Crow were selling the day of the event for the low price of $20 given that they apparently had trouble selling tickets at regular price. I definitely would have gone had I known.[/quote]
Well, it's a bloody shame that ticket sales were so poor. The show was for a very worthy cause. Unfortunately, it was such a strange mix of performers (tenors, Crow, Sting) that it would have been difficult to find too many people with both deep pockets and deep interest in all three acts.
It was well advertised. In fact, they had a TV ad for the concert during Spectacle with The Police.
As this is an annual event we can only hope they put together a more appealing line up next year...like say, Sting, Andy and Stewart...
I just found out today that tickets for the show with Sheryl Crow were selling the day of the event for the low price of $20 given that they apparently had trouble selling tickets at regular price. I definitely would have gone had I known.[/quote]
Well, it's a bloody shame that ticket sales were so poor. The show was for a very worthy cause. Unfortunately, it was such a strange mix of performers (tenors, Crow, Sting) that it would have been difficult to find too many people with both deep pockets and deep interest in all three acts.
It was well advertised. In fact, they had a TV ad for the concert during Spectacle with The Police.
As this is an annual event we can only hope they put together a more appealing line up next year...like say, Sting, Andy and Stewart...
In Dallas, the only game that really mattered was in the word gamelan.
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luddite lady - Posts: 2224
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