Vote: Police Backing Vocals Live

[Wait and See]

Obviously it goes without saying that these guys are the pros, and they will ultimately do what feels right to them regardless of what we think.

That said, the way I see it is this...the Police have always been a pop group to some extent. There were always teenage girls getting weak-kneed over Sting, and some of the songs (De Do Do Do being the best example) were a little more pop-styled than a lot of people would usually go for. What set them apart and gave them credibility was their musicianship, and the totally unique sound they created as a band. Normally, a song like "Every Little Thing" would not be something I'd listen to on a regular basis, but I can get into it because of the interplay of the rhythm section. If they go out with a bunch of samples tied to a click, that whole element is handicapped.

Maybe they don't care. Maybe they just want to make sure they sound as slick as possible, and give people something that sounds just like their recordings. I can understand that, but to me, the main reason I like listening to them is to hear what they do on their instruments, Stew first and foremost. You've got to unchain the madman, otherwise you might as well use a drum machine. Playing to a click would be death for their sound, IMO. That's without even addressing the loss of credibility as performers that comes with using "canned" vocals. Ashlee Simpson nearly lost her career over it, and she's a freaking teeny-bopper pop singer. For the Police it could be far worse, if people view it as "fakery".

I guess to me, bottom line...as far as I know they never used backup singers of any kind until their last tour, so I don't understand why they can't get by without it now. Maybe Sting is a little more limited than he used to be, but he sounds pretty good from everything I've heard. Why can't they just do what they used to do? I thought that was the whole idea?:?:

[amaninasuitcase]

[quote="BongoBoy"]I am in Toronto and just read in the paper today, some jerk reviewer ranting about the Police using backing samples and comparing it to Ashlee Simpson on SNL.

Give me a break.

backing vocals are a lot different to the lead vocal.

I can relate to what Stewart is saying. We as fans want the "core" band sound...but Stewart needs to play. As a drummer it can kinda ruin the grovve of your vibe having to sing these backing vocal while you are un the MIDDLE of a thundering drum fill. I have always stuggled with that myself.

I don't know what the answer is, I like just the three guys but you can tell they don't want to hinder themselves so I guess I would suggest backup singers...samples sound OK but it the principal of it I guess, if you have the choice.

I vote for 3 guys singing backup. I know it ain't as sexy but I think guy voices would suit The Police sound better (IMO)

I dunno, whadaya think?

Cheers.[/quote]


I must have read the same article. I kinda chuckled.

[New Zealand Promoter]

"I can relate to what Stewart is saying. We as fans want the "core" band sound...but Stewart needs to play. As a drummer it can kinda ruin the grovve of your vibe having to sing these backing vocal while you are un the MIDDLE of a thundering drum fill. I have always stuggled with that myself."

'wait and see' already made a valid argument against this - to at least some extent, pre-rec vocal samples require the tempo to be set and/or a click to be used. this will, in itself, stifle the drumming. you want stew playing to a click so the police can 'slicken' their sound?

bleaurgh.

...and male backing vocalists?

BLEAUGH....

i don't get this attitude. the best police shows were between 79 and 82 - without backing vocalists or sampled vocals! why fix something that isn't broke....??

[blueboy]

Just to clarify again...they DON'T need to play to a click to use sampled backing vocals.

I wouldn't vote for using samples if everything had to be sequenced. I hate playing to click tracks...especially live, and it really constricts the band. It's ok for some songs that need to be in perfect time like Synch 1, but if no other "instruments" are pre-programmed, then they don't need it.

Imagine a keyboard, and on the very bottom key you press it and out comes "Roxaaanne". The next key up has a sample of the second "Roxaaanne" slightly higher in pitch, and so on. All someone has to do is hit the key at the right time so that the backing vocal samples occur when they should. As long as The Police are "in the ballpark" tempo-wise...everything will work out great, and they are not constricted in any way other than they have to play the chorus of Roxanne at some point!

Yes they might have used a click for Roxanne on the grammy's (I haven't listened closely enough yet), but that is for a television performance where timing is critical to the flow of the show. That type of precision is not needed in a live concert performance.

A lot of bands use someone running Pro Tools on a laptop as their "Pre-recorded tape" because they have many elements on their album that can't be produced live, or because they have to lip-synch certain parts. That kind of thing requires a drummer to play to a click. Triggering short vocal samples does not!

If done right, they can be very effective, as well as being very unobtrusive.

[fahidguitar]

honestly, its best kept simple. music should be about the instrument and the person playing it..sometimes technology can get in the way .

[Wait and See]

I think you're being a little optimistic, blueboy. I am a musician, although like I said, I've never had an occasion to work with long vocal samples. The chorus phrases on Roxanne last about two full measures. Even if they're split from one "Roxanne" to another, the timing has to be maintained pretty closely to make the the change of note from "Rox" to "Anne" match up. If you split the two parts of the phrase so one key is "Rox" and the other is "Anne", I think you're setting yourself up for a very unnatural sound if Stew decides to crank up the tempo even a little, or a total disconnect if the phrase is kept as a whole "Roxanne". That means you have to play to a click, which is what I think they did on the Grammys. The effect of that cannot be understated. It means that the drummer is no longer the time keeper, a machine is.

Another example is "Can't Stand Losing You". Sting sings the first "I can't", then the BG adds an "I can't", then they both sing "I can't stand losing" together, then it repeats twice, with a variation the third time, then Sting belts out "Can't Stand Losing You!". You can't do that without playing to a click either.

Edit- There's more to it than I thought-- the whole "pre chorus" is also harmonized (I guess you'd call it cowardice/but I'm not prepared to go on like this).

[reggattagirl]

Would male backup singers blend better with the Police sound?

[blueboy]

[quote="Wait and See"]I think you're being a little optimistic, blueboy. .[/quote]

Not every song requires that the backing vocals be exactly like the record in all places....but some songs need the lift and punch during the chorus. I don't want a stilted and lifeless show either. The key is to use them only where they are absolutely needed, and to use them tastefully.

As for specific examples, like Roxanne....the only rhythmic element in that phrase is the timing between "Rox" and "Anne", and that occurs at the beginning of the phrase. They are never going to be so off the proper tempo that it will sound wrong, especially if it is mixed relatively low in the overall mix and you are hearing it in an arena with a billion echoes bouncing around everywhere. Any slight timing errors can also easily be corrected on a recoding made for a concert DVD if needed.

It's no different than Andy stepping on his delay pedal for a particular song to get a rhythmic repeat effect going. His delay will be set for a particular tempo that cannot change unless he resets it. If Stewart is going a little fast, he will be able to hear that and will adjust accordingly "in real time".

The big difference in using short samples is that it offers freedom to the band, in that the guy doing the triggering can respond to the band "on the fly" as if he was playing another instrument.

With a click track and pre-recorded backing tracks, it is easy to screw up and lose your place...meaning the backing vocals could come in at the wrong time.

Have you ever gone to a dance club where the DJ is triggering samples in time with the backing drum track, or manually adjusting the tempo of two tracks being played off vinyl to segue from one to the other?

This is not new technology or techniques that we are talking about here. It's all about using technology in a musical way.

[Laz]

[quote="Laz"]My opinion on the live backing vocal/sampled backing vocal thing changes almost by the hour, sometimes I'm thinking that there's something a bit cheesy about it, but like I posted elsewhere, Rush has been flying in sampled backing vocals on stage for years now...

However, the more I listen to the new Whisky and Grammy versions of Roxanne, those backing vocal samples do lend quite a bit of punch when mixed well...

Like many here, I'm just overjoyed that The Police are back, and I could care less... whatever the decision is about the sampled backing vocals is perfectly fine with me...

Laz[/quote]

Like I said, I'm of several opinions about this... right now I'm at the computer w/Outlandos To Synchronicities in my VCR, and in the version of So Lonely in that video, Stewart and Andy are on stage really nailing those backing vocals live, so....

Laz

[blueboy]

Is this what you are all afraid of?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKcXiPdUAdI

[Laz]

[quote="blueboy"]Is this what you are all afraid of?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKcXiPdUAdI

[/quote]

yeah I guess that would cross the line, wouldn't it?
Laz

[blueboy]

OK, I've found the answer!

This guy is probably available for the tour....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNnwMWlv ... ed&search=

[Wait and See]

[quote="blueboy"]Is this what you are all afraid of?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKcXiPdUAdI

[/quote]

I'd say that's pretty close, considering AS has a Ukulele.

[cpriddims]

Just thought I'D BUMP THIS ONE UP ONE MORE TIME TO GET A LAST RUSH OF VOTES!

[Divemistress of the Dark]

[quote]Running Sting's vocal against his own lead is what to me exposes the "fakery". Remember that you and Andy and these songs are the components driving all this media attention and fan hoopla. Sting by himself is a Jay Leno thing![/quote]

go Jedsoon!

And STEWART, should you by some miracle have read this far: You and Andy don't suck. If anything, I'm kinda disappointed you never did another Klark Kent record, since I was all over that damn Christmas song this year and would dearly love to hear a your-vocals complete version of "Does Everyone Stare." Or, oh geez, "Bombs Away." Don't know why you seem to have this mental block on the issue of your singing, really I don't.

Another vote for Hannah's solution, which was a mix of samples of Sting, Stewart and Andy. And no click track.