Oh my god, I hate to contradict you Stewart but you and Andy really don’t suck. The track that really turned me on to The Police was On Any Other Day. Yours & Andy vocals are what sold the Police to me. You give the Police personality.
With regard to your point about drumming and singing, well you got me there as I can barely walk and chew gum but IMHO the Do Wop Babes sucked and I would like to hear you and Andy singing. I know you can’t please everyone but I sure that you’ll come up with something that most people will be happy with.
Vote: Police Backing Vocals Live
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by Voolou on 16 Feb 2007 11:33
I think some of you are missing the point. It is extremely hard to play drums and sing at the best of times. When Stewart gets extremely busy ( which is most of the time and it's great lol) it becomes so hard to sing at the same time. Also weighing in on this is that most of the time he's playing totally against the vocal line (which makes it even harder). add to this is the fact that Andy (as much as I admire the guy)doesn't cut it as a singer. Sting needs the backing vocals to be constant and in tune. Otherwise he finds it alot harder to pitch his notes.
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by New Zealand Promoter on 16 Feb 2007 11:59
[quote="Voolou"]I think some of you are missing the point. It is extremely hard to play drums and sing at the best of times. When Stewart gets extremely busy ( which is most of the time and it's great lol) it becomes so hard to sing at the same time. Also weighing in on this is that most of the time he's playing totally against the vocal line (which makes it even harder). add to this is the fact that Andy (as much as I admire the guy)doesn't cut it as a singer. Sting needs the backing vocals to be constant and in tune. Otherwise he finds it alot harder to pitch his notes.[/quote]
ummmm LOL... in fact... ROTFL....
NO, er, he DOESN"T, chief. Now I know it was a long time ago, but remember those little Police tours from 1979-1982? Hm? Remember those? Sting didn't seem to have any trouble there without backing vocalists to "be constant and in tune". What utter, complete bollocks. Listen to any recording of the broken music tour from just LAST YEAR - and the only backing vocals were the occasional harmony from the drummer and one of the guitarists. That was it. Did Sting have trouble being "constant and in tune" ? er... No. Therefore, you are categorically incorrect.
Someone else said:
"Another option is maybe Andy and Stew could record their BG vox now in the present and use those clips instead of the ones from the records. "
LOL. The issue with pre-recorded backing vocals is that they are PRE-RECORDED BACKING VOCALS, dude! If you're going to use them, what's the freaking point of getting Andy and Stew to do them??? Further, you seem to imply that Stew and Andy sang backing vocals on Sting's (ie the ones he wrote and sang) Police songs. Errrr no, they didn't. Save for maybe one or two early records, Sting did his own backing vocals. You want pre-recorded? May as well use Sting's, at least that's true to the source material. Want raw, honest rock without tricks and played with complete credibility? Let Sting do his job - Sing and play bass. He doesn't need the sampled vox.
What are we talking about here?
God! If there's one band in the world that is idiosynchratic enough in its sound, that is glorious enough in its capacity to interact with one other, that does NOT need pre-recorded backing vocal samples to "fill out the sound", surely it is THE POLICE????
I think some of you must think this is a Genesis message board!
Pre-recorded backing vocals will undermine the live cred of the band... and they do not NEED them. End of story.
ummmm LOL... in fact... ROTFL....
NO, er, he DOESN"T, chief. Now I know it was a long time ago, but remember those little Police tours from 1979-1982? Hm? Remember those? Sting didn't seem to have any trouble there without backing vocalists to "be constant and in tune". What utter, complete bollocks. Listen to any recording of the broken music tour from just LAST YEAR - and the only backing vocals were the occasional harmony from the drummer and one of the guitarists. That was it. Did Sting have trouble being "constant and in tune" ? er... No. Therefore, you are categorically incorrect.
Someone else said:
"Another option is maybe Andy and Stew could record their BG vox now in the present and use those clips instead of the ones from the records. "
LOL. The issue with pre-recorded backing vocals is that they are PRE-RECORDED BACKING VOCALS, dude! If you're going to use them, what's the freaking point of getting Andy and Stew to do them??? Further, you seem to imply that Stew and Andy sang backing vocals on Sting's (ie the ones he wrote and sang) Police songs. Errrr no, they didn't. Save for maybe one or two early records, Sting did his own backing vocals. You want pre-recorded? May as well use Sting's, at least that's true to the source material. Want raw, honest rock without tricks and played with complete credibility? Let Sting do his job - Sing and play bass. He doesn't need the sampled vox.
What are we talking about here?
God! If there's one band in the world that is idiosynchratic enough in its sound, that is glorious enough in its capacity to interact with one other, that does NOT need pre-recorded backing vocal samples to "fill out the sound", surely it is THE POLICE????
I think some of you must think this is a Genesis message board!
Pre-recorded backing vocals will undermine the live cred of the band... and they do not NEED them. End of story.
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New Zealand Promoter - Posts: 835
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by jedsoon on 16 Feb 2007 12:22
Well, i gotta disagree on the assessment of yours and Andy's voices. It seems everywhere i turn the fans are clamoring for it. Whatever trepidations the two of you may have about presenting a bad show, the sentiment seems to be strongly in favor of hearing you sing. It suggests to me you berate yourselves far too harshly. Answer the call!
I have nothing against samples or BG vocalists, but a lot of folks seem predispositioned against those notions. However, I don't think anybody's not going to enjoy the show, regardless of whatever solution you come up with.
Running Sting's vocal against his own lead is what to me exposes the "fakery". Remember that you and Andy and these songs are the components driving all this media attention and fan hoopla. Sting by himself is a Jay Leno thing!
It seems the best solution may be what Hannaha and others have suggested: blending yours and Andy's prerecorded samples with your own live singing. It ensures a vocal presence for those essential parts and offers a live element too. Newly recorded samples won't stick out so much that you'd "notice" them. You could obviously trigger them from a drum pad if you didn't want to be tied to a click. You must be wishing you'd collectively rethought the decision to include multi-part vocal harmonies on some of your signature tunes!
Great to see you so exuberant on TV this week!
I have nothing against samples or BG vocalists, but a lot of folks seem predispositioned against those notions. However, I don't think anybody's not going to enjoy the show, regardless of whatever solution you come up with.
Running Sting's vocal against his own lead is what to me exposes the "fakery". Remember that you and Andy and these songs are the components driving all this media attention and fan hoopla. Sting by himself is a Jay Leno thing!
It seems the best solution may be what Hannaha and others have suggested: blending yours and Andy's prerecorded samples with your own live singing. It ensures a vocal presence for those essential parts and offers a live element too. Newly recorded samples won't stick out so much that you'd "notice" them. You could obviously trigger them from a drum pad if you didn't want to be tied to a click. You must be wishing you'd collectively rethought the decision to include multi-part vocal harmonies on some of your signature tunes!
Great to see you so exuberant on TV this week!
-chris
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jedsoon - Posts: 1081
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by xyzman on 16 Feb 2007 13:04
Whilst I think it should be just the three of them singing live, you heard what the man said!
So what's the answer?
I have to go with Hannaha - if we can't have the real thing, logic dictates that the samples should be of Stewart and Andy and not of Sting - although I also agree with the sentiment of "we don't really want Stewart playing to a metronome".
Bloody hell, this is a nightmare!
So samples it is then - but of Stewart and Andy and not just of Sting.
So what's the answer?
I have to go with Hannaha - if we can't have the real thing, logic dictates that the samples should be of Stewart and Andy and not of Sting - although I also agree with the sentiment of "we don't really want Stewart playing to a metronome".
Bloody hell, this is a nightmare!
So samples it is then - but of Stewart and Andy and not just of Sting.
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by sockii on 16 Feb 2007 15:19
[quote="Three over Four"]I voted for #1, but I could do #2....my big thing is that I just want to see the 3 of you guys on stage without any additions, be it musicians or BG vocalists.[/quote]
I'm with you, 3/4...I don't really mind the samples if that makes things more manageable for everyone and it's blended in with Stewart & Andy...hearing them in the mix has always been one of the things I enjoyed while listening to old concert recordings, if only because it gave it a much rawer and real sound.
I just don't want to hear things sounding over-produced or mechanical, but then again, in the end I care more about hearing Stewart "blaze" on the drums than provide Dear Leader's harmonies.
Just no to the do-wop babes, PLEASE!
I'm with you, 3/4...I don't really mind the samples if that makes things more manageable for everyone and it's blended in with Stewart & Andy...hearing them in the mix has always been one of the things I enjoyed while listening to old concert recordings, if only because it gave it a much rawer and real sound.
I just don't want to hear things sounding over-produced or mechanical, but then again, in the end I care more about hearing Stewart "blaze" on the drums than provide Dear Leader's harmonies.
Just no to the do-wop babes, PLEASE!
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sockii - Posts: 4888
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by jedsoon on 16 Feb 2007 16:23
Technology doesn't have to be an either/or proposition, it can be fully integrated into the live process.
If you choose to record samples be as organic with them as possible. Record each one as an original take, no looping. I know when i wanna try to smooth out my vocal i usually want an empty room to just focus on tone and breathing. Let alone playing an instrument!
But, if you wanna take on elements of your own legacy, listen to the Melbourne '81 performance of So Lonely. At around 5:47 on my boot you come in at the finish with a powerful vocal complement that steals the finale of the song! And Andy was in surprisingly fine form Monday, deep and understated. Suck?? Rubbish!!
Hook up your own bank of samples to your own trigger. Andy can easily trigger his samples from a box, if he wanted. This enables you guys to use the skills you're most familiar with to trigger the samples in real time. Or not, since you're got your mics on too. Try to fool us!
I'd have a technician riding shotgun on the bank switch. S/he could switch out each sample in realtime, so you're not held to a tempo.
The blending of live and sample becomes intuitive. If youve got a great roll in you that's gonna interfere with the next delivered vocal, tap that pad a little harder to concentrate on your riff. OR abandon the vocal altogether to tell us "Hey! You're supposed to listen to the drums in this part!"
Remember when the bass player quit on the James Brown tune? He wasn't supposed to listen when James said "Quit it!" JB reprimanded him on the spot jokingly, but it was actually a brilliant moment, held aloft by drums alone!
Might be something fun to play around with. You might even find yourself growing away from it as you become re-seasoned, as it were.
If you choose to record samples be as organic with them as possible. Record each one as an original take, no looping. I know when i wanna try to smooth out my vocal i usually want an empty room to just focus on tone and breathing. Let alone playing an instrument!
But, if you wanna take on elements of your own legacy, listen to the Melbourne '81 performance of So Lonely. At around 5:47 on my boot you come in at the finish with a powerful vocal complement that steals the finale of the song! And Andy was in surprisingly fine form Monday, deep and understated. Suck?? Rubbish!!
Hook up your own bank of samples to your own trigger. Andy can easily trigger his samples from a box, if he wanted. This enables you guys to use the skills you're most familiar with to trigger the samples in real time. Or not, since you're got your mics on too. Try to fool us!
I'd have a technician riding shotgun on the bank switch. S/he could switch out each sample in realtime, so you're not held to a tempo.
The blending of live and sample becomes intuitive. If youve got a great roll in you that's gonna interfere with the next delivered vocal, tap that pad a little harder to concentrate on your riff. OR abandon the vocal altogether to tell us "Hey! You're supposed to listen to the drums in this part!"
Remember when the bass player quit on the James Brown tune? He wasn't supposed to listen when James said "Quit it!" JB reprimanded him on the spot jokingly, but it was actually a brilliant moment, held aloft by drums alone!
Might be something fun to play around with. You might even find yourself growing away from it as you become re-seasoned, as it were.
-chris
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jedsoon - Posts: 1081
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by dreamupschemes on 16 Feb 2007 16:45
[quote="STEWART"]Two problems with Andy and me:
1. We suck.
2. The places where I need to sing are the big choruses - which is where I need to blaze on the drums.[/quote]
#1 No you don't. I don't like singers that suck :D
#2 I'm all for samples, especially if it saves your blazing. I also like the idea mentioned above about layering you and Andy rather than Sting.
That's just my .02 :)
1. We suck.
2. The places where I need to sing are the big choruses - which is where I need to blaze on the drums.[/quote]
#1 No you don't. I don't like singers that suck :D
#2 I'm all for samples, especially if it saves your blazing. I also like the idea mentioned above about layering you and Andy rather than Sting.
That's just my .02 :)
I don't see any flaws 'til I get to my feet
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dreamupschemes - Posts: 7
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by itsalrightforstew on 16 Feb 2007 17:38
If singing would affect Stewart's drumming, then I can accept the sampling but no doo-doo-wop singers.
But I do think Stewart's and Andy's vocals sound great on live material, especially on "So Lonely" and "Truth Hits." And I do like the way both sounded on "Roxanne" in the Urgh! show from '80.
But I do think Stewart's and Andy's vocals sound great on live material, especially on "So Lonely" and "Truth Hits." And I do like the way both sounded on "Roxanne" in the Urgh! show from '80.
I wasn't even supposed to be here today.
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by blueboy on 16 Feb 2007 19:01
The bottom line for me is that it is all about the music. When Sting composes his songs, the melody and harmonies are really what make the songs so special in the first place. Unfortunately, in order to sing those songs every night, Sting has to change the melody to a lower register, in order not to shred his voice over the course of a tour.
If nobody sings the high harmonies, the energy in the music gets diminished somewhat, and some songs just don't work without the "big chorus".
I want to see the guys in top form for both my show, and all the way through to (hopefully) a live DVD performance somewhere later in the tour. Stewart and Andy should be concentrating on what they do best (not singing)! And anyone that thinks Sting or the Police lack credibility for using backing vocal samples needs to pull their head out of their arse! Hello???
The is a BIG DIFFERENCE between Sting using backing vocal samples to ENHANCE his performance, and Ashley Simpson using vocal samples to REPLACE her performance!
While the idea of recording Stewart and Andy ahead of time sounds good at first, it really then becomes more like the Ashley Simpson thing doesn't it?
Even if Sting rerecorded his backing samples himself to sound a little less perfect...it still is Sting using backing samples, and there really is no point.
If they are kept low enough in the mix, and Stewart and Andy blend their less than perfect sound over the samples when they can, it will sound better than no backing vocals or just Stew and Andy. When they need to blaze on their instruments, they won't have to sing at all, and no one will be concentrating on the backing vocals then anyway.
If nobody sings the high harmonies, the energy in the music gets diminished somewhat, and some songs just don't work without the "big chorus".
I want to see the guys in top form for both my show, and all the way through to (hopefully) a live DVD performance somewhere later in the tour. Stewart and Andy should be concentrating on what they do best (not singing)! And anyone that thinks Sting or the Police lack credibility for using backing vocal samples needs to pull their head out of their arse! Hello???
The is a BIG DIFFERENCE between Sting using backing vocal samples to ENHANCE his performance, and Ashley Simpson using vocal samples to REPLACE her performance!
While the idea of recording Stewart and Andy ahead of time sounds good at first, it really then becomes more like the Ashley Simpson thing doesn't it?
Even if Sting rerecorded his backing samples himself to sound a little less perfect...it still is Sting using backing samples, and there really is no point.
If they are kept low enough in the mix, and Stewart and Andy blend their less than perfect sound over the samples when they can, it will sound better than no backing vocals or just Stew and Andy. When they need to blaze on their instruments, they won't have to sing at all, and no one will be concentrating on the backing vocals then anyway.
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blueboy - Posts: 243
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by BongoBoy on 16 Feb 2007 19:37
I am in Toronto and just read in the paper today, some jerk reviewer ranting about the Police using backing samples and comparing it to Ashlee Simpson on SNL.
Give me a break.
backing vocals are a lot different to the lead vocal.
I can relate to what Stewart is saying. We as fans want the "core" band sound...but Stewart needs to play. As a drummer it can kinda ruin the grovve of your vibe having to sing these backing vocal while you are un the MIDDLE of a thundering drum fill. I have always stuggled with that myself.
I don't know what the answer is, I like just the three guys but you can tell they don't want to hinder themselves so I guess I would suggest backup singers...samples sound OK but it the principal of it I guess, if you have the choice.
I vote for 3 guys singing backup. I know it ain't as sexy but I think guy voices would suit The Police sound better (IMO)
I dunno, whadaya think?
Cheers.
Give me a break.
backing vocals are a lot different to the lead vocal.
I can relate to what Stewart is saying. We as fans want the "core" band sound...but Stewart needs to play. As a drummer it can kinda ruin the grovve of your vibe having to sing these backing vocal while you are un the MIDDLE of a thundering drum fill. I have always stuggled with that myself.
I don't know what the answer is, I like just the three guys but you can tell they don't want to hinder themselves so I guess I would suggest backup singers...samples sound OK but it the principal of it I guess, if you have the choice.
I vote for 3 guys singing backup. I know it ain't as sexy but I think guy voices would suit The Police sound better (IMO)
I dunno, whadaya think?
Cheers.
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BongoBoy - Posts: 2668
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by Spec A! on 16 Feb 2007 19:38
Wow, I love how heated this has become! Seriously, who cares?!?! They could all be playing Lutes on stage and I'd be happy.... well, no I really wouldn't. 
But you get the idea.
Guys and gals don't ever forget how much of a freaking dream come true this is! Never in a bazillion years did 99.9% of us ever think they'd get back together and tour. Whatever they decide to do- sing, samples, whatever will rock, and it will be the very best thing we will have ever witnessed. EVER!
Stewart- just play your drums and have fun! If the mood strikes- sing! If not, I'll be so tuned in to your drumming it won't even matter. I don't know about the rest of you but their songs are so ingrained in my head that I'll be hearing the harmonies anyways, regardless of where they come from, if even there at all! Thanks Stewart for thinking of us all in this whole process, but have no fear- whatever you decide to do will be amazingly awesome.
But you get the idea.
Guys and gals don't ever forget how much of a freaking dream come true this is! Never in a bazillion years did 99.9% of us ever think they'd get back together and tour. Whatever they decide to do- sing, samples, whatever will rock, and it will be the very best thing we will have ever witnessed. EVER!
Stewart- just play your drums and have fun! If the mood strikes- sing! If not, I'll be so tuned in to your drumming it won't even matter. I don't know about the rest of you but their songs are so ingrained in my head that I'll be hearing the harmonies anyways, regardless of where they come from, if even there at all! Thanks Stewart for thinking of us all in this whole process, but have no fear- whatever you decide to do will be amazingly awesome.
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