good ol'.....
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Hi STEWART!
by Chatchka on 15 Jan 2009 20:13
"Legalese is an English term first used in 1914[1] for legal writing that is difficult for laypeople to read and understand, the implication being that this abstruseness is deliberate for excluding the legally untrained and to justify high fees. Legalese, as a term, has been adopted in other languages.[2][3] Legalese is characterized by long sentences, many modifying clauses, complex vocabulary, high abstraction, and insensitivity to the layman's need to understand the document's gist. Legalese arises most commonly in legal drafting, yet appears in both types of legal analysis. Today, the Plain Language Movement in legal writing is progressing, and experts are busy trying to demystify legalese.
Some important points in the debate of "legalese" vs "plain language" as the continued standard for legal writing include:
[edit] Public Comprehensibility
Perhaps most obviously, legalese suffers from being less comprehensible to the general public than plain English, which can be particularly important in both private (e.g., contracts) and public matters (e.g., laws, especially in democracies where the populace is seen as both responsible for and subject to the laws).
[edit] Resistance to Ambiguity
Legalese may be particularly resistant to misinterpretation, be it incidental or deliberate, for two reasons:[citation needed]
Its long history of use provides a similarly extensive background of precedent tied to the language. This precedent, as discussed above, will be a strong determinant of how documents written in legalese will be interpreted.
The legalese language itself may be more precise when compared to plain English, having arisen from a need for such precision, among other things.
Joseph Kimble, a modern plain-English expert and advocate, refutes the claim that legalese is less ambiguous in The Great Myth that Plain Language is not Precise.[4] Kimble says legalese often contains so many convoluted constructions and circumlocutions that it is vaguer and more ambiguous than plain English."
Some important points in the debate of "legalese" vs "plain language" as the continued standard for legal writing include:
[edit] Public Comprehensibility
Perhaps most obviously, legalese suffers from being less comprehensible to the general public than plain English, which can be particularly important in both private (e.g., contracts) and public matters (e.g., laws, especially in democracies where the populace is seen as both responsible for and subject to the laws).
[edit] Resistance to Ambiguity
Legalese may be particularly resistant to misinterpretation, be it incidental or deliberate, for two reasons:[citation needed]
Its long history of use provides a similarly extensive background of precedent tied to the language. This precedent, as discussed above, will be a strong determinant of how documents written in legalese will be interpreted.
The legalese language itself may be more precise when compared to plain English, having arisen from a need for such precision, among other things.
Joseph Kimble, a modern plain-English expert and advocate, refutes the claim that legalese is less ambiguous in The Great Myth that Plain Language is not Precise.[4] Kimble says legalese often contains so many convoluted constructions and circumlocutions that it is vaguer and more ambiguous than plain English."
Go Club Tama -- Balls OUT!!!!!
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Chatchka - Posts: 1154
- Joined: 11 Dec 2007 16:01
- Location: far, far down the road less traveled by and fucking loving it here.
by smax on 15 Jan 2009 21:16
[quote="Chatchka"] "...circumlocutions.... "[/quote]
that, or "circumlocutory", is one of my favourite words (after "pamph")
that, or "circumlocutory", is one of my favourite words (after "pamph")
<---A photo of me with Stewart pointing at a photo of Stewart pointing at me.
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smax - Posts: 2527
- Joined: 05 Sep 2006 12:22
- Location: Flag Bearers Retirement Home, Copelondonia.
by Chatchka on 15 Jan 2009 22:22
ooooh, I love it when you other-side-of-the-ponders say words like circumlocutory. (pamph)
And now this...
NEW YORK (Reuters Life!) - Tampa, Florida tops the charts as the most caffeinated city in the United States, followed by Seattle and Chicago, according to a new poll.
http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyl ... 4O20090113
I think this might be my fault, even though I've given up Starbucks. Off to get another tea now -- feeling a little tired.
And now this...
NEW YORK (Reuters Life!) - Tampa, Florida tops the charts as the most caffeinated city in the United States, followed by Seattle and Chicago, according to a new poll.
http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyl ... 4O20090113
I think this might be my fault, even though I've given up Starbucks. Off to get another tea now -- feeling a little tired.
Go Club Tama -- Balls OUT!!!!!
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Chatchka - Posts: 1154
- Joined: 11 Dec 2007 16:01
- Location: far, far down the road less traveled by and fucking loving it here.
by Lynne on 15 Jan 2009 22:33
OK, I'm bringing out the heavy hitter (I can't believe DM didn't go here):
"Finally, there is a fourth characteristic of power - a power that, in a sense, traverses and drives those other powers. I'm thinking of an epistemological power-that is, a power to extract a knowledge from individuals and to extract a knowledge about those individuals -who are subjected to observation and already controlled by those different powers. This occurs, then, in two different ways. In an institution like the factory, for example, the worker's labor and the worker's knowledge about his own labor, the technical improvements - the little inventions and discoveries, the micro adaptations he's able to implement in the course of his labor - are immediately recorded, thus extracted from his practice, accumulated by the power exercised over him through supervision. In this way, the worker's labor is gradually absorbed into a certain technical knowledge of production which will enable a strengthening of control. So we see how there forms a knowledge that's extracted from the individuals themselves and derived from their own behavior."
Michel Foucault. (2000). 'Truth and Juridical Forms'. In J. Faubion (ed.). Tr. Robert Hurley and others. Power The Essential Works of Michel Foucault 1954-1984. Volume Three. New York: New Press, pp. 83-4.
Damn. If post-structural, post-modern literary criticism doesn't smoke him out, what will?
"Finally, there is a fourth characteristic of power - a power that, in a sense, traverses and drives those other powers. I'm thinking of an epistemological power-that is, a power to extract a knowledge from individuals and to extract a knowledge about those individuals -who are subjected to observation and already controlled by those different powers. This occurs, then, in two different ways. In an institution like the factory, for example, the worker's labor and the worker's knowledge about his own labor, the technical improvements - the little inventions and discoveries, the micro adaptations he's able to implement in the course of his labor - are immediately recorded, thus extracted from his practice, accumulated by the power exercised over him through supervision. In this way, the worker's labor is gradually absorbed into a certain technical knowledge of production which will enable a strengthening of control. So we see how there forms a knowledge that's extracted from the individuals themselves and derived from their own behavior."
Michel Foucault. (2000). 'Truth and Juridical Forms'. In J. Faubion (ed.). Tr. Robert Hurley and others. Power The Essential Works of Michel Foucault 1954-1984. Volume Three. New York: New Press, pp. 83-4.
Damn. If post-structural, post-modern literary criticism doesn't smoke him out, what will?
... trained by the CIA to accept vast quantities of information at high speed in binary code
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Lynne - Posts: 1544
- Joined: 11 Jul 2007 22:49
- Location: "Forty-something now, but still looking pretty good."
by conroy on 15 Jan 2009 22:58
[quote="Chatchka"]"Legalese is an English term first used in 1914[1] for legal writing that is difficult for laypeople to read and understand, the implication being that this abstruseness is deliberate for excluding the legally untrained and to justify high fees. Legalese, as a term, has been adopted in other languages.[2][3] Legalese is characterized by long sentences, many modifying clauses, complex vocabulary, high abstraction, and insensitivity to the layman's need to understand the document's gist. Legalese arises most commonly in legal drafting, yet appears in both types of legal analysis. Today, the Plain Language Movement in legal writing is progressing, and experts are busy trying to demystify legalese.
Some important points in the debate of "legalese" vs "plain language" as the continued standard for legal writing include:
[edit] Public Comprehensibility
Perhaps most obviously, legalese suffers from being less comprehensible to the general public than plain English, which can be particularly important in both private (e.g., contracts) and public matters (e.g., laws, especially in democracies where the populace is seen as both responsible for and subject to the laws).
[edit] Resistance to Ambiguity
Legalese may be particularly resistant to misinterpretation, be it incidental or deliberate, for two reasons:[citation needed]
Its long history of use provides a similarly extensive background of precedent tied to the language. This precedent, as discussed above, will be a strong determinant of how documents written in legalese will be interpreted.
The legalese language itself may be more precise when compared to plain English, having arisen from a need for such precision, among other things.
Joseph Kimble, a modern plain-English expert and advocate, refutes the claim that legalese is less ambiguous in The Great Myth that Plain Language is not Precise.[4] Kimble says legalese often contains so many convoluted constructions and circumlocutions that it is vaguer and more ambiguous than plain English."[/quote]
Legelese also happens to be a Made-for-TV film on TNT original film that aired in the Fall of 1998 which featured a score by none other than Stewart himself.
Some important points in the debate of "legalese" vs "plain language" as the continued standard for legal writing include:
[edit] Public Comprehensibility
Perhaps most obviously, legalese suffers from being less comprehensible to the general public than plain English, which can be particularly important in both private (e.g., contracts) and public matters (e.g., laws, especially in democracies where the populace is seen as both responsible for and subject to the laws).
[edit] Resistance to Ambiguity
Legalese may be particularly resistant to misinterpretation, be it incidental or deliberate, for two reasons:[citation needed]
Its long history of use provides a similarly extensive background of precedent tied to the language. This precedent, as discussed above, will be a strong determinant of how documents written in legalese will be interpreted.
The legalese language itself may be more precise when compared to plain English, having arisen from a need for such precision, among other things.
Joseph Kimble, a modern plain-English expert and advocate, refutes the claim that legalese is less ambiguous in The Great Myth that Plain Language is not Precise.[4] Kimble says legalese often contains so many convoluted constructions and circumlocutions that it is vaguer and more ambiguous than plain English."[/quote]
Legelese also happens to be a Made-for-TV film on TNT original film that aired in the Fall of 1998 which featured a score by none other than Stewart himself.
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conroy - Posts: 3452
- Joined: 07 Feb 2005 18:06
by luddite lady on 16 Jan 2009 04:06
Wow! You've been busy, gang! While I've been out there boring the heck out of my students for a living you folk have been putting the whole freaking Internet to sleep...AND I've missed out on all the fun.
Since I threatened...here we go....
que j'emmerdasse
que tu emmerdasses
qu'il/elle emmerdasse
que nous emmerdassions
que vous emmerdassiez
qu'il/elle emmerdassent
That's l'imparfait du subjunctif of emmerder, to give someone a pain in the neck or bore one stiff 'cuz you never know when you might want to talk hypothetically or emotively about being a boring pain in a continous manner in the past tense.
And that's a regular verb. I've still got all my irregular ones in reserve.
Since I threatened...here we go....
que j'emmerdasse
que tu emmerdasses
qu'il/elle emmerdasse
que nous emmerdassions
que vous emmerdassiez
qu'il/elle emmerdassent
That's l'imparfait du subjunctif of emmerder, to give someone a pain in the neck or bore one stiff 'cuz you never know when you might want to talk hypothetically or emotively about being a boring pain in a continous manner in the past tense.
And that's a regular verb. I've still got all my irregular ones in reserve.
In Dallas, the only game that really mattered was in the word gamelan.
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luddite lady - Posts: 2224
- Joined: 20 Nov 2007 05:05
- Location: Searching the world for symphonic gamelan
by DirtyMartini on 16 Jan 2009 05:14
LLady, are there any fun tricks for "to persuade" by any chance? I can't seem to remember the exact details in French (pathetic, I know), but persuadeo/persuadere has always been my favorite Latin verb because it's literal translation -- "to make sweet to" -- is so fitting.
Dramatic highlights & a unique musical cosmos. Guaranteed.
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DirtyMartini - Posts: 9622
- Joined: 03 Mar 2007 18:38
- Location: Around.
by Divemistress of the Dark on 16 Jan 2009 06:06
Last year's meeting notes from the Kaw Valley, Kansas Mycological Society (folks who love mushrooms...the toadstool kind, not the hallucinogenic. The jokes write themselves.)
[quote]Kansas reports 1000 species!
With a month of drought it didn't look as if this year we would make our goal of adding number 1000 to the species reported from Kansas. But Sherry's sharp eye for odd little guys paid off, combined with her persistence in the lab and library. Here are the most recent additions to the checklist of species reported from Kansas.
Tremella frondosa Fries (no. 994). Collected August 11 on the Adams foray, this jelly fungus appeared in large, leafy clusters that were yellow; some were darker, orangish at the base. See Arora, p. 674.
Collybia semihirtipes (no. 995). Terry Shister collected this on the Adams foray, growing on acorns and leaf litter. It looks like a Marasmius, so much so that Peck named it Marasmius semihirtipes. The specific epithet semihiripes implies that it is "half hairy," but this is a misnomer, because the stalk of our specimen was almost completely covered with matted cinnamon hairs, which fits Kauffman's description (1918, 1:678). He distinguishes it from M. spongiosus, which is hairy only at the base (1:65-66). Subsequently, spongiosus was moved from Marasmius to the genus Collybia, and according to Miller/Farr 1975, also synonymized with semihirtipes (p. 50). We think, however, that the hair stalks are distributed so differently that two species are still to be distinguished, though some might prefer to distinguish them as only two varieties. Collybia spongiosa has been reported once from Kansas, by Bartholomew in 1927.
Phellinus punctatus (no. 996). Sherry found this brown resupinate mass as a circular patch with rusty brown pores and context. It matched the description in Breitenbach (2:262), but Sherry was not sure until she saw a specimen at the NAMA foray in West Virginia.
Ciboria peckiana (no. 997). Collected on the Adams foray, these teeny-tiny gray cups stumped Sherry until they were identified at the NAMA foray by John Plischke III.
Panellus serotinus (no. 998). Very like oyster mushrooms, these were kidney- to fan-shaped, attached to wood without a stalk, with caps (3-7 cm) colored grayish with a tinge of violet. Collected September 7 on the Dingus foray. Reference: Phillips 1991, p. 211.
Callistosporium luteo-olivaceus (no. 999). Also found at Dingus, this looks like just another Marasmius, but the cap and gills are a shiny, solid yellow; as they dry out, they turn reddish, darker at the center. The stipe is scrufy. See Arora, p. 211.
Gerronema strombodes (no. 1000). A deep dimple, or umbilicate depression, at the cap center suggested the specific epithet strombodes, "trumpet shaped," which feature makes Gerronema a close relative to the more familiar genus Omphalina. Our single specimen was found on wood, at Dingus. The cap (2 cm) was a pale greenish gray, drying to a dark yellow; the stalk was whitish. See Phillips 1991, p. 77.
[/quote]
[quote]Kansas reports 1000 species!
With a month of drought it didn't look as if this year we would make our goal of adding number 1000 to the species reported from Kansas. But Sherry's sharp eye for odd little guys paid off, combined with her persistence in the lab and library. Here are the most recent additions to the checklist of species reported from Kansas.
Tremella frondosa Fries (no. 994). Collected August 11 on the Adams foray, this jelly fungus appeared in large, leafy clusters that were yellow; some were darker, orangish at the base. See Arora, p. 674.
Collybia semihirtipes (no. 995). Terry Shister collected this on the Adams foray, growing on acorns and leaf litter. It looks like a Marasmius, so much so that Peck named it Marasmius semihirtipes. The specific epithet semihiripes implies that it is "half hairy," but this is a misnomer, because the stalk of our specimen was almost completely covered with matted cinnamon hairs, which fits Kauffman's description (1918, 1:678). He distinguishes it from M. spongiosus, which is hairy only at the base (1:65-66). Subsequently, spongiosus was moved from Marasmius to the genus Collybia, and according to Miller/Farr 1975, also synonymized with semihirtipes (p. 50). We think, however, that the hair stalks are distributed so differently that two species are still to be distinguished, though some might prefer to distinguish them as only two varieties. Collybia spongiosa has been reported once from Kansas, by Bartholomew in 1927.
Phellinus punctatus (no. 996). Sherry found this brown resupinate mass as a circular patch with rusty brown pores and context. It matched the description in Breitenbach (2:262), but Sherry was not sure until she saw a specimen at the NAMA foray in West Virginia.
Ciboria peckiana (no. 997). Collected on the Adams foray, these teeny-tiny gray cups stumped Sherry until they were identified at the NAMA foray by John Plischke III.
Panellus serotinus (no. 998). Very like oyster mushrooms, these were kidney- to fan-shaped, attached to wood without a stalk, with caps (3-7 cm) colored grayish with a tinge of violet. Collected September 7 on the Dingus foray. Reference: Phillips 1991, p. 211.
Callistosporium luteo-olivaceus (no. 999). Also found at Dingus, this looks like just another Marasmius, but the cap and gills are a shiny, solid yellow; as they dry out, they turn reddish, darker at the center. The stipe is scrufy. See Arora, p. 211.
Gerronema strombodes (no. 1000). A deep dimple, or umbilicate depression, at the cap center suggested the specific epithet strombodes, "trumpet shaped," which feature makes Gerronema a close relative to the more familiar genus Omphalina. Our single specimen was found on wood, at Dingus. The cap (2 cm) was a pale greenish gray, drying to a dark yellow; the stalk was whitish. See Phillips 1991, p. 77.
[/quote]
On Google - site:stewartcopeland.net "your keyword here" - thanks DM!!
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Divemistress of the Dark - Posts: 7873
- Joined: 12 Jul 2006 14:10
- Location: Nashville, TN
by visions on 16 Jan 2009 11:49
Okay over my head 
Stewart Armstrong Copeland born on the 16th July 1952 Alexandra Virginia USA (not Egypt) as many would print........(cancer just like me and we are 94% compatible
)
he has two brothers and one sister........
Miles, Ian and Lexie 
Ohhhhhhh I have two brothers and one sister (spooky)
i did warn you ...............
Stewart Armstrong Copeland born on the 16th July 1952 Alexandra Virginia USA (not Egypt) as many would print........(cancer just like me and we are 94% compatible
)
he has two brothers and one sister........
Miles, Ian and Lexie
Ohhhhhhh I have two brothers and one sister (spooky)
i did warn you ...............
Kiss me you fool
Hopping around like a floozie
26/1/2008
Hopping around like a floozie
26/1/2008
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visions - Posts: 2256
- Joined: 04 Apr 2007 13:10
- Location: Any where the Stew is. Australia
by policerule on 16 Jan 2009 13:24
[quote="Maud138"]
How do you work? By your own, or for a big company. I guess you're somebody who needs a lot op people around?
[/quote]
Sounds like you've got it good. I work for the same company for the last 18+ years! Sole proprietor. Nice guy. I have no complaints about management, it's just boring, but at least I can pretty much do whatever I want, when I want. Like buy Les Claypool tix this morning!
How do you work? By your own, or for a big company. I guess you're somebody who needs a lot op people around?
[/quote]
Sounds like you've got it good. I work for the same company for the last 18+ years! Sole proprietor. Nice guy. I have no complaints about management, it's just boring, but at least I can pretty much do whatever I want, when I want. Like buy Les Claypool tix this morning!
READY THE BLADE!
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policerule - Posts: 8142
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