Invisible Sum?

[tomkins]

Hello to all,

Although I've been lurking about on this forum for a few weeks now, this is my first actual post. I must say that reading so many enthusiastic entries has made my own experience of the now official Police reunion that much more exciting. It's nice to see so many people who, like me, were unable to attend any of the Synchronicity concerts but who now, at long last, have a chance to see one of the world's greatest bands-- a band most of us believed we would never see live. In particular, it is fantastic to see so much appreciation for Stewart, who I have always believed was the heart and soul of the Police. While there's no question that Andy, Stewart, and Sting together share an unusual synergy, it is Stewart's drumming that, for me, really distinguishes the Police not only from other band's of their era, but from other bands in general. His style is as identifiable as a singer's voice or a guitar hero's licks: you always know it's Stewart behind the drum kit.

As happy as I am about the Police reunion, though, it's not as if we don't have to take the good with the bad. Corporate tie-ins and exorbitant fan club and ticket prices have a way of rubbing the polish right off of this newly glimmering dream-come-true. At $90 plus a head-- let alone $225 for the really fine seats-- one is reminded that all this reunion business isn't just about sentiment, it's about business. It hasn't taken long for the very thing that broke up the Police in the first place (that is, at least according to Andy) to rear its ugly head yet again: there is a tremendous weight on our heroes to deliver the goods, to keep a legion of promoters, financial backers, and corporate CEOs well in the black this year.

I'm sorry, but to charge people $100 to join a fan club in order to gain the opportunity "maybe" to get slightly better tickets than the rest of us is both abusive to fans who are dying to see this band and blatantly unethical generally. $100 to the fan club (who pockets this money anyway?), another $100 or more for a single (decent) seat at a show-- is it me or has the touring industry gotten WAY out of control? Does the band-- do any popular artists-- have a say in any of this? While the disparity between the haves in the have-nots in the U.S. and elsewhere widens by the day, are artists so distracted by their own fame that they have lost touch with how much money $100 really is, let alone $225? Who do they expect will freely cough up such sums? Hard core fans? Or fair-weather, upper middle class Americans with disposable income to burn? I can't figure out who is more cynical, me or the people behind tours like this who know most people can't afford these prices but charge them anyway because ... well, because they can. Because our emotional attachment to bands like the Police is so very strong that we are willing to bit the bullet.

Like most of you, I'm thrilled that I get to see the Police this summer-- it really is a dream come true. And like so many others, I am as bonded to their music as (according to Stewart) the band members currently are to one another. But I can't help but wonder at what point my dedication to their music will cease to eclipse the anger I feel at being so obviously taken advantage of. The Police have decided to give us a lean and mean show this summer: three guys on a stage-- that's it. It's too bad we can't apply some of that same simplicity to the ticketing process: no expensive presales, no exorbitant fees, no bloated ticket prices. Whatever happened to lean and mean, one price fits all ticketing with all tickets going on sale at the same time, giving people of modest means an equal chance at scoring a decent seat. When did rock n' roll stop being about fairness and community and become a trinket of the world's wealthiest? Has rock music come full circle, catering to the very forces that it began in protest against?

[GinaSuperCat]

I can't help but think that they are wincing at the absolute mania that is going on in thier name...Best Buy presale codes for $400, tickets at Fenway for $6500, fans not able to get presales only to see the tickets on ebay for thousands minutes later. I can't speak for anyone except for myself...sometimes I can't even muster up that

I joined the fan club for that, to be in the fan club. I'm sure that there will be some benefits like with Sting.com--maybe member's only drawings and other perks. I want that lithograph to arrive, too! I'm sure more benefits will appear in the same manner that the site has been exponentially growing since even yesterday's launch.

I know that's not much consolation for those who happened to really want tickets for these first few shows--when the reunion news is still becoming even more-frenetic. There's not really much one can say about that Things will smooth over after the aftershocks subside.

I personally don't think I have the chops to deal with the arena-stadium concert ticket acquisition process the way it's evolved. My most cherished vintage Police footage is them either rocking small clubs or blowing away festivals--since the former is not remotely feasible in this or the dozen parallel universes in closest proximity to ours, I think I'm going to experience the Police reunion by trying to hit whatever festivals they're booked. I'm hoping that this will be just pure ecstasis rather than bittersweet, the way the arena thing has already got me feeling.

Other than that, I'll be trying to enter any and every Police contest on the planet!

Best to all Stewart and Police fans aroud the world!!!

[jedsoon]

That's a mouthful for a first post, tom! Welcome aboard...

I hate to admit it, but i agree with every single thing you just said, and was getting ready to launch my own diatribe 'til i saw your well-worded sentiment. The bad taste in my mouth unfortunately began during the much anticipated broadcast reahearsal/press conference, when the band sat out the corporate speechmakers touting their eagerness to deliver the police and (this part was unspoken) collect on a giant payday.

Sad to say, i probably won't be joining over there. I don't see it beating the perks we have here:

1)it's FREE.

2)Cool people hang out here and it's still feels kinda cozy, even if it's somewhat exploded in the last few weeks.

3)STEWART F'IN COPELAND communicates directly with us. There's nothing to say he won't be doing the same over there, tho.

4)Don't lynch me, but i've said it before: I'm as much or more a Stewart fan than a Police fan anyway! Even if recent events have nudged me slightly in the other direction...

The big upside to all these promotional efforts, aside from the obvious, is that a percentage will go to developing nations. But I know i'm going to be dropping some serious dime on a ticket anyway, and a portion of that will already be going to this cause, and i can always just give more directly to them if i want.

I hope all the apparent problems associated with these presales get straightened out for the folks who've already plunked down their hard-earned cash!

[Snare]

First, welcome as a poster!

Second, let's try to put this in perspective. And this is coming from someone who cannot afford to join the fan club/pre-sale thing. The Stones charged up to $450 for their best seats. So although I do find $225 harsh to MY wallet, it could be worse. Also, they are having various prices depending on seating. At least it gives some people at chance at more moderately priced tickets. They probably could've sold every seat at $225 and still sold out arenas. The other thing is both some of the profits from the tour AND a portion of the $100 membership fee are going towards a charity (water aid). I don't know if other bands do that with their profits.

That having been said, for the $100 membership, you also get "perks" for the whole year... acess to much more on the site then a non-member (as in behind the scenes videos, photos, larger messageboard, etc). So the $100 is not exclusively going for the presale ticket.

What I have to complain about (even though it doesn't affect me personally) is the people that joined & paid their $100 yesterday, only to find out that A) they are not getting access to the absolute best tickets... those, as stated in the press conference, are reserved for Best Buy Rewards Members that had signed up before February 1st. And B) when the presale starts, the already paid members have to log into the site, get the passcode, then go to the Ticketmaster site to use said passcode to try to get tickets... when those willing to pay the $100 membership as they BUY presale tickets, will end up getting first crack at them. They just have to go to Ticketmaster, agree to pay the $100 fee and get acess right away to the presale seats.

So on the onehand, I am okay with the money they want, but if it doesn't end up being fair for the people that pay the extra money, then that's not cool at all.

[Divemistress of the Dark]

Just as an aside to new people joining: This last wrinkle has been worked out, and the fan club folks are now able to buy tickets ahead of the general presale on Ticketmaster.com. Carry on.

[Mrs. Gradenko]

>are artists so distracted by their own fame that they have lost touch with how much money $100 really is, let alone $225?
Lets see. $225 x 2 tickets= $450 + $100 fan club = $550

$550= 91.8 hours of work, or 11 and a half days

Your killing me! But I must have front row... and Mommy and Daddy still pay for everything else. hehe.

[100years]

i totally agree.

$100 to just join a website...to have the privildge of perhaps getting better seats than the rest of us plebs who cant afford $100..

it's disappointing and really is a major indication that this tour is being dictated by Sting Ltd and the suits.

I know it will make Stewart and Andy very rich men too but I do believe that Stewart, at least is in it for more than the money and the ego trip.

For those of you who pay the $100, you're bigger fools because you're just buying into the whole thing. If nobody paid the money to join their crappy website...they'd make it free to join soon enough...because they'd be afraid there wasnt the interest in the tour.

[ceebab]

I agree that it's not as bad as it could be. Madonna charges $100 for the nosebleed seats, for cryin' out loud.

As far as who decides the price, I don't think the band has a whole lot of say in that.

Pearl Jam tried to keep their prices down in the 90's, and that's what started the whole war with TicketBastard.

I think a lot of the price is determined by how much the tour costs to put on. For a tour like this, you want the best gear and the best crews around so that the technical aspects aren't going to get in the way.

Plus there's transportation of the band and the gear and some of the crew, the venues have their cut that is probably set fairly high, the local promoters, the record company, Best Buy gets a cut, Ticketmaster gets a cut... the list goes on.

This is why I think $225 for a show of this magnitude is really not so bad.

This is also why Peter Gabriel doesn't tour anymore. He can't command high enough ticket prices for the quality and technical aspects of the kind of show he wants to do. His last 2 tours lost money, and from what I understand tickets were not cheap for the times.

[Stephen]

I think, in decades past, touring was a mostly break-even venture which helped drive merchandise and album sales where most of the revenue was generated...

In today's world, however, I think this paradigm has been turned upside down and touring and fan clubs have become profit centers making up for album sales lost to internet filesharing.

But, that's just how I see it. And i'm not in the music business!

[Joey Connelly]

I can't say that I'm in love with the cost of the tickets, but hey, I'm not complaining about them. This is a very special tour by a very special band, and it would be silly to not expect ticket prices to be at a premium. (We're not talking about Fallout Boy or All American Rejects, after all....)

However, I still maintain that the $100 website fee is utter B.S. and I really wish that all of the fans had called them (aka "the suits") out on this -- refusing to pay such a steep and unnecessary price.

With that being said, I still don't condemn anyone for having ponied up the cash, even though I really wish they hadn't. This tour plays upon a lot of nostalgia for most of us, and the powers that be know this and are using it to their financial advantage. As diehard, old-tyme fans seeing a two decade dream come true, we're all too eager to do whatever we can to be a part of this occasion, unfortunately, sometimes at the cost of common sense.

[tomkins]

"Plus there's transportation of the band and the gear and some of the crew, the venues have their cut that is probably set fairly high, the local promoters, the record company, Best Buy gets a cut, Ticketmaster gets a cut... the list goes on."

This is why I think $225 for a show of this magnitude is really not so bad."

Yes, but weren't these very same standards in place back in the dark ages when a ticket to see the Police, or Sting, or Peter Gabriel, or whomever, was something around $30? Inflation notwithstanding, I don't believe that promoters are selling $225 tickets (or $450 tickets to see 4/5 of the Stones or, for that matter, $350 tickets to see 1/2 of the Who) because they MUST in order to make up for costs. This is about people making lots and lots of money. And it's not as if "industry" people are worried about this tour NOT making money-- don't must folks agree that this tour is going to be the biggest thing ever? Short of a Pink Floyd reunion, the Police were the last of the classic bands in which all of the members are still alive and mobile. I think the heart leapt out of the touring industry the minute Bill Graham died ...

But really, NONE of this stuff bugs me as much as the $100 fan club fee. It's just foul, in my view.

Also, I suspect that the real reason Peter Gabriel "doesn't tour anymore" is because the guy has become so damn slug-like. You really need to light a fire of some magnitude under his ass to get him to do much of anything these days-- or at least that's how it appears.

Finally, I hope I'm not coming off as supremely bitter here!

[100years]

[quote="tomkins"]

But really, NONE of this stuff bugs me as much as the $100 fan club fee. It's just foul, in my view.

[/quote]

I completely agree.

it is really crass and disappointing

You can also bet your bottom dollar, tee shirts at the concerts will be about $50 dollars each...but they'll be snapped up so you cant blame the promoters for charging it...

[blueseattle]

[quote="jedsoon"]That's a mouthful for a first post, tom! Welcome aboard...

I hate to admit it, but i agree with every single thing you just said, and was getting ready to launch my own diatribe 'til i saw your well-worded sentiment. The bad taste in my mouth unfortunately began during the much anticipated broadcast reahearsal/press conference, when the band sat out the corporate speechmakers touting their eagerness to deliver the police and (this part was unspoken) collect on a giant payday.

Sad to say, i probably won't be joining over there. I don't see it beating the perks we have here:

1)it's FREE.

2)Cool people hang out here and it's still feels kinda cozy, even if it's somewhat exploded in the last few weeks.

3)STEWART F'IN COPELAND communicates directly with us. There's nothing to say he won't be doing the same over there, tho.

4)Don't lynch me, but i've said it before: I'm as much or more a Stewart fan than a Police fan anyway! Even if recent events have nudged me slightly in the other direction...

The big upside to all these promotional efforts, aside from the obvious, is that a percentage will go to developing nations. But I know i'm going to be dropping some serious dime on a ticket anyway, and a portion of that will already be going to this cause, and i can always just give more directly to them if i want.

I hope all the apparent problems associated with these presales get straightened out for the folks who've already plunked down their hard-earned cash![/quote]

jedsoon, I don't even need to post now. That just says everything.

Beautiful!

[blueseattle]

[quote="tomkins"]"Plus there's transportation of the band and the gear and some of the crew, the venues have their cut that is probably set fairly high, the local promoters, the record company, Best Buy gets a cut, Ticketmaster gets a cut... the list goes on."

This is why I think $225 for a show of this magnitude is really not so bad."

Yes, but weren't these very same standards in place back in the dark ages when a ticket to see the Police, or Sting, or Peter Gabriel, or whomever, was something around $30? Inflation notwithstanding, I don't believe that promoters are selling $225 tickets (or $450 tickets to see 4/5 of the Stones or, for that matter, $350 tickets to see 1/2 of the Who) because they MUST in order to make up for costs. This is about people making lots and lots of money. And it's not as if "industry" people are worried about this tour NOT making money-- don't must folks agree that this tour is going to be the biggest thing ever? Short of a Pink Floyd reunion, the Police were the last of the classic bands in which all of the members are still alive and mobile. I think the heart leapt out of the touring industry the minute Bill Graham died ...

But really, NONE of this stuff bugs me as much as the $100 fan club fee. It's just foul, in my view.

Also, I suspect that the real reason Peter Gabriel "doesn't tour anymore" is because the guy has become so damn slug-like. You really need to light a fire of some magnitude under his ass to get him to do much of anything these days-- or at least that's how it appears.

Finally, I hope I'm not coming off as supremely bitter here![/quote]

4/5th of the Stones! Haha, I haven't heard that ever. To me, I still think they've made great if not better music without Brian Jones.

The 1/2th The Who has been a deterrance to me personally and they're one of my top 10 favorite bands of all time.

[racerxjj67]

I saw The Who recently and it was a great show. Don't be deterred. Zack Starky plays a great set in replace of Moon...actually a lot cleaner. He puts all the fills in nicely. The biggest loss was John Entwistle.