STEWART COPELAND

So even though I play on a mix of regular A's, A-customs, and Z-customs, I always seem to break the 16" Z-custom Med Rock Crash that sits next to my 12" splash and to the right of my 13" rack tom. I guess it's my fav, I hit it alot but it's a Z-Custom!! They're supposed to withstand hard hits! Worst part is I could tell for a while that it's got a crack, but I could never find it! Usually my cymbals end up cracking against the grain (and with the stick hit) with the occasional cracks with the grain. This one I couldn't find at all- I could hear the attack/cut/sustain progressively getting lost. Last night playing it just had no body to it anymore but I still couldn't find that damn crack! So I got out a magnifying glass- first time ever I had to do this! Usually hard to find cracks are with the grain and you can easily see them by slightly bending the cymbal. These were freaking diagonal cracks, and multiple ones at that! I'm bummed, because it sounds like ass now and my Crash of Doom has been cracked for a while too, but it's such a low priority at this point to replace.

Sigh..

Yep. During my short lived career in a performing band I was constantly breaking cymbals. There were a variety of reasons, like not having them mounted properly, having them too flat, hitting too hard or just having a crappy product to begin with. For the most part, I found the cracks would start around the mounting hole and the bell portion of the cymbal and it wouldn't take long to be completely unusable. I had a used Paiste 18" crash/ride that almost shattered. It started from the outer edge and worked its way inward to destruction. I found that splash cymbals at the best of times where short lived and I once had a pair of 15" hats that would somehow invert/bend themselves if the pedal was clamped too hard! It is bloody frustrating and these things are expensive. I feel your frustration

Heh I have Planet Z's that came with the kit for free and so I hit them with reckless abandon...not like any risk of sound deterioration...so I guess no stakes...I play on Custom K's for my lessons and they sound so much nicer, especialy the dark crashes <drool>

If they were bought new and nothing done to them that would micro-nick the edge (I'm assuming the diagonal cracks are from edges in and not from the bell) that's strange, since they are supposed to be pretty heavy-duty...was it stored for a long time...has this happened to more than one, or just the one (thought it sounded like you may've had this problem with more than one)...could be defective if it was just the one, but more than that <boggle>...

How would you describe how you usually crash (dead-on or like recoil)...and how it is positioned/angled?......maybe that would help anyone here who knows better what's going on...hehe sounds like you might be born for Rudes <grin>

BTW: how did you like the Crash of Doom sound before its current "ass" stage...20"? I love the big lower-pitched crashes, I've never really been into the thinner higher pitched ones, but that's just my ears <grin>

Heh, sorry for the ramble...I have web-add, surely <grin>

Sucks Huge !

I have some Paiste Rudes that will never break. I have gone through a bunch of '6 splashes...used to use Zildian (spelled wrong?)...now use Sabian,cheaper.

A long time ago I had a 16 Zildian crash and the outside edge cracked. So after looking at it close I found I could kinda "peel" the bottom inch along the seam...right off!. So now it was like a 15 inch crash. I sanded the edge with metal sand paper and since it wasn't perfect...I drilled holes in it and put rivits in.

That's a story of my home made Sizzle cymbal.

Mind-numbingly dull but there it is.

You might need to change your cymbal "angle" so there is less stress on it when you smash it...(apparently with all your might!!!)

I try to use the Copeland patented "swipe" an my cymbals...not all the time but it's kinda fun sometimes.

Cheers Buddy!

Well you guys know me enough by now to know I swipe as well- it's slightly angled, in fact all of them are. I break enough sticks on my rims (since I hit the rim on almost every strike) to not even want to think about flat cymbals, how they'd chew up the sticks that much more let alone lead to cracking the cymbal!

I've never played dead on. They've never been stored and yes this is like the 4th one over the last 10 years I've cracked. I also tend to crack the 17" A-custom projection crash that sits to the right of it and above the ride. Seems to be in 3 year trends, and actually in thinking about it I think I replace the Z-custom about 3 years ago now... The diagonal cracks are actually in the middle of the cymbal, and random! Not in one spot like you'd think! Very strange. The others have all cracked from the edge in. I know I play those two the most so it's not horribly shocking that they crack. I just wish I could find what I want in sound that had the longevity and can withstand my playing without being thick and heavy. I have a plain old 16" Z-custom rock crash, and it's totally different in feel and sound than the 16" Z-custom med rock crash. I've had it since they came out with Z's like 15 years ago! It's thick, heavy, and big sounding for a 16", totally different from the medium version. Come to think of it- they've changed hammer patterns since that one (star shape) and I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

BTW- The crash of doom is awesome! It is thin, wavy, funky, has a great huge swooping crash and also serves as a funky ride when you're in the mood. I have the 21" version, not sure if they make it anymore, and yes this is my 2nd. I'm not surprised I cracked it tho, it is thin. I also had a 14" K-custom dark crash at one point- she cracked around the bell, and so I made a clock out of her. Replaced with a 14" A-custom.

In the past, I used to go through crashes like every 8 months to a year. Nowadays, I pay more attention to the way the cymbals are mounted (not screwed on too tight or too loose, as well as having some sort of rubber or plastic sleeve so that the hole at the center of the cymbal never makes direct metal-to-metal contact with the rod), and of course playing the cymbals with a glancing diagonal swipe, drawing the sound "out of the cymbal" (Copeland "swipe" maybe?), as opposed to a direct perpendicular strike into the cymbal. Being more mindful of the above, I've managed to keep my Zildjian 18" K Dark Custom and 17" A Custom crashes in excellent condition for over 11 years. That's what has worked for me.

Laz

it is not very common for me i break a cymbal maybe once every 5 yrs and my sticks last forever as well.

The Tama Stands I use all have the fun little fasteners that have the sleeve attached- never had any metal to metal contact. And they're not too tight, not too loose either- I just must play really hard huh?

Wierd!

I've only had one cymbal crack on me. It was my first-ever splash - an 8" A Zildjian that had to be from the 60's. It was super-thin. I got it with my first kit in 1978 (8th grade). It always had this weak spot right near the cup. I played that thing every day from the day I got it until it cracked around 1994!

I have lots and lots of cymbals from all 3 major brands. I play Zildjian K's. All of my crashes are thin and I get pretty agressive with them. I strike with "swipes," as you guys describe. I always try to pretend that my cymbals are really hot and if I leave the stick on for longer than a nanosecond, it'll catch fire. It sounds corny, but it works for me.

I also love the Tama wingscrew thingies. So much better than rubber sleeves. Too bad they can't license the design to other manufacturers (I play Sonor). With rubber sleeves, you've gotta ALWAYS inspect them, because they never last very long.

I've notived that I have all of my cymbals set at the exact same angle, regardless of height.

One thing I am having to work on is attacking my ride differently. My favorite ride is my trusty old 20" K Heavy from the 80's. It has a great ping, but lots of gorgeous wash as well - it's remarkably crashable. Howver, it is a heavy cymbal and I've noticed that lately, my right index finger gets very sore near the first knuckle - almost like it's bruised. So, I've been really trying to modify my ride technique and really let the stick rebound as much as I can, so as not to shock my hand so much.

Maybe switching to lighter sticks will help, Anthony? No one should be breaking Z Custom mediums that often. Maybe it's a quality control problem? Have you thought about sending one back and having Zildjian inspect it? They should be able to tell whether the cymbal is defective.

On a side note, Neil Peart has been breaking his Paragons like they're made of glass or something...

[quote="Spec A!"]I just must play really hard huh? [/quote]

A is for AN-I-MAL!
*pant*pant*pant*

[quote="zilboy"]Wierd!

I also love the Tama wingscrew thingies. So much better than rubber sleeves. Too bad they can't license the design to other manufacturers (I play Sonor).
I've notived that I have all of my cymbals set at the exact same angle, regardless of height.

One thing I am having to work on is attacking my ride differently. My favorite ride is my trusty old 20" K Heavy from the 80's. It has a great ping, but lots of gorgeous wash as well - it's remarkably crashable. Howver, it is a heavy cymbal and I've noticed that lately, my right index finger gets very sore near the first knuckle - almost like it's bruised. So, I've been really trying to modify my ride technique and really let the stick rebound as much as I can, so as not to shock my hand so much.

Maybe switching to lighter sticks will help, Anthony? No one should be breaking Z Custom mediums that often. Maybe it's a quality control problem? Have you thought about sending one back and having Zildjian inspect it? They should be able to tell whether the cymbal is defective.

On a side note, Neil Peart has been breaking his Paragons like they're made of glass or something...[/quote]


Those Tama thingies are awesome! And you can buy them separately. I believe most cymbal stands use the same thread 1/4 20? Try one out to see if they fit your Sonor stands.

I kinda have the same thing in my ride too! It's a late 70's early 80's 22" A medium Zildjian ride as far as I can tell. I bought it used, no markings other than the avedis stamp. I always figured it for an A series- great bell, nice ride, great wash, and I crash it too! I actually had it refinished a few years after buying it- holy cow did that make it sing!

In terms of sticks, I used to use the Regal Tip Rock model, Stewart's stick of choice as indicated in the 1982 interview in Modern Drummer. Close to a 5B model I guess, but it's light and has this rubber core in the butt. (HAHA!). They break easily on me tho because I think the wood isn't as dense as other models. I recently switched this past fall to Stewart's Vic Firth signature model and love it! Immediately they are heavier and more dense feeling than the Regal Tips which was hard to get used to. But they hold up much better. I can't imagine playing with anything thinner than a 5A stick though. As for your finger bruising- is it actually bruised or just feel like it is in the knuckle? Could you be holding too tight as you play faster? Can you loosen up your grip and rock/roll the stick between the thumb and index while riding?

I will check with Zildjian to see if it is a QC thing. It's 3 years old now, I doubt they'd do anything for me but you never know.


AN-I-MAL!

No bruise, just feels that way. Not so much during the last couple of weeks. The new technique must be working.

I use the Copeland model also. Some pairs are lighter than others, though, and I find that these last longer. I was never crazy about Regal. I used to use Pro Mark 707 oak sticks, then their hickory 5A's until they started snapping like toothpicks, especially the tips. That was the end of my relationship with Pro Mark.

I stumbled onto Vater by accident. I was using Sonor maple sticks, then they stopped making the size I liked. Then I found out about Vater's "Cymbal Sticks" and they were great, but a bit too 5B-ish. THEN came the Copeland sticks - BINGO!

I took a graduate course in African drumming last summer. The instructor borrowed a pair of my Copelands. He started playing for us, then stopped suddenly, looked down at the sticks, and said "These are NICE!"

Even if Zildjian gives you some grief, just tell them all you want to know is whether the cymbal is defective. They can be a bit snooty sometimes. I had a minor tussle with them when they decided to make their own sticks. I used to love their early models, which by the way, Vater made! I got a bit grumpy with their attitude. I got a free box oF 5A's and a T-shirt out of them, though!

I meant, the heavier Copeland sticks last longer. This cold is clogging my neural pathways!

Sonor's stuff is all metric. Tama thingies don't fit.

I have been using the Copeland sticks since they came out. Really nice size...just perfect.

Me thinks Spec A! eats way too much spinach!

"Uga uga uga me feels likes some drummin yeaaa"

(that was me typing how Popeye talks.)

Damn Brits and their metric system!

Oh wait.... Sorry my European friends!

I always found the ProMarks to be too long or too short. Stewart's model seemed to have the best length and diameter for me. The Vic Firth sig model is exactly like the Regal Tip Rock model, I just think it's more of a quality stick. I ike the finish on them as well.