OT: DRUMMERS, Recording Question

[Skip]

My band is recording our debut CD next month.
I recorded a lot in the 90's, but it was mostly analog tape.
Digital scares me a bit- I don't want to rely on technology for my sound.
I prefer a roomy "kit in a room" sound, but I wanted to get some drummer advice.
Nutters!! --Any suggestions for mic'ing a kit or recording in general?
Many thanks,
Skip

[Rusty James]

Skip, when I use to record (in the early 90’s) I was adamant about capturing my own drums natural sounds as opposed to some digital/midi cacophony of sampled noises that just didn’t seem appropriate for the music we were making at the time. We did a lot of “live off the floor” recording in our own rehearsal space as our little Teac reel to reel only had 8 channels so space was limited to say the least.
On the rare occasions when I was inside a professional recording studio I found that some sound engineers preferred the digital/midi approach as this eliminates many of the problems that arise when using live microphones with sound levels all over the dial instead of sensors on your drums that, when struck, actuate the digital sounds at a constant level.
There are a few folks on our forum that have way more experience with this than me. I’m thinking our very own resident expert Jeff Sietz would be a wealth of information on this topic.
Good luck recording your debut CD.

[zilboy]

Pool whatever money your group has and go into a professional recording studio. Scout around and find someone who has been in business awhile. Meet the owners, engineers, etc. Make sure they are on board with what YOU want. You'll have more fun and get more done - since your funds will only allow you so much time, you'll be more serious and focused.

My few fond memories of my last band are the times we were in the recording studio. The owner was also the engineer (and a kickass guitarist) and he was absolutely dedicated to getting the sound I wanted out of my kit. Of course, it didn't hurt that I'd made sure that my drums were sounding great from the get-go. Spend the time and get them singing beforehand. We used tape to record the tracks, then used Pro Tools for the mixing/editing. There is nothing more fun than hearing your drums blasting through those speakers in the control room!

I am NOT an advocate of the whole "do-it-yourself" thing. In my very first "real" band, the frontman/songwriter/guitarist had a ramshackle home studio that was half analog and half MIDI and he had absolutely no clue which end was up. I recorded my tracks on a piece-of-crap Rogers kit with Piezo triggers and a Roland Octopad for the cymbals. The abominable contraption only worked 50% of the time. We had to go back later and manually put in all the missing beats. This took several days. I could have done it on a real kit at a real studio in about 30 minutes. Not to mention that it sounded nothing like MY drums. The album ended up sounding like sh-t. Third graders would have probably sounded better. I was never so embarrassed to have my name on something.

Whatever you decide - good luck and have fun!

[Tamadude]

[quote="zilboy"] There is nothing more fun than hearing your drums blasting through those speakers in the control room!![/quote]

I bet!

Imagine through arena speakers and stacks? I'd love to try playing a videogame on the HDjumbotron while we're at it!

Great input, RJ and ZB. This is an interesting topic. One which I know little about, I'm afraid.

Can't wait to read Laz's opinion on this. SkaMan too. Where you at, Ska?

[Spec A!]

I've recorded on both tape and digital, but have always used mics. I've done everything from a very basic 4 mic set- kick, snare/hats, and stereo overheads, to the more complex 16 mic set up with different multiple mic-ing techniques on the kick and snare, individual mics for every drum, etc. I've recorded in super isolated, and open rooms, my favorite though was a room that had a combo of some nice rich wood on the walls and the sound controlling isolation foam stuff. Definitely spend the time to research and find the right place. No offense to the guitarists/vocalists- it doesn't take much to capture them, no super special acoustical recording rooms required. Drums of course (are where it's at!) need a certain combo of room and mic-ing to capture the sound properly. There are so many variables that can change this too so it really pays to do some homework before going into the studio. The last place we recorded at that had the room I loved, we used a ton of mics on the kit and it really captured exactly how I hear my drums. Plus the engineer was an audio engineer with the Navy, knew some CRAZY stuff. Get to know your recording engineer, spend some quality time getting the drums exactly like you need to be. When it came time to mix there was not a ton of work needing to be done as we had captured the sound so well- the dry raw recordings by themselves sounded fantastic.

There really is not a whole lot more enjoyable to a drummer than hearing yourself and your kit coming out of those recording monitors. Recording in the studio is incredibly fun!!

[Skip]

Thanks all! Yeah, I'll never forget the first time I heard my playback on those studio speakers, you're so right Zilboy.

We are booked at a professional recording studio and the team there seemed cool. I guess my question comes down to
the studio's preferred close mic method (using a mic on everything) or the more "kit in the room approach" ie: 3 mics--
One about 3 or so feet above the snare drum pointed at the snare.
One a few inches above the rim of the floor tom pointed at the snare/hi hats
and one a few inches outside the kick drum.
I guess the pros for close mic'ing is they can use software to get sounds if needed. The "Room' approach
is what you hear is what you get, outside of a EQ tweaks. I just love the sound of a well- tuned kit in a good sounding room,
so I guess that's why I'm leaning towards pushing for it.
I should, say I have no engineering background, so I could be dead wrong! I appreciate your thoughts.

-S.

[Rusty James]

[quote="Spec A!"]...There really is not a whole lot more enjoyable to a drummer than hearing yourself and your kit coming out of those recording monitors. Recording in the studio is incredibly fun!![/quote]

The only thing more enjoyable than that is playing a mic’d up drum kit live on stage, thundering out of the mains and bass bins of a big honkin’ stereo PA system with the kick drum shaking the drum riser and your rib cage and whatever else that ain’t bolted down – absolutely no feeling like it.

[zilboy]

I was always close-mic'd. With all the effects that are available today, I'm sure a decent engineer could make it sound like you only had a couple of mics on the kit, if that's what you really dig. However, you have so much more control over your sound with individual mics and it's so much easier to do a punch-in should it become necessary. For example, say you screw up on the hi-hat - you can go back and re-do only that, whereas with room mics, you'd have to play the whole kit, at least I imagine that's how it must be.

[Skip]

"I'm sure a decent engineer could make it sound like you only had a couple of mics on the kit"

Thanks Zilboy, I never thought about it that way. Excellent advice!

[BongoBoy]

It depends on what vibe you are going for. Each recording process has it merits. If you were doing Techno then obviously going a more digital route would be best. Every engineer has his/her own idea's and will "scoff" at the idea you know anything, (at least my experience).

My suggestion, he will want to mic your drums his/her own way, let em. Then strongly suggest some room mics, that way you can hear his way but you will still have the option of adding soom "real" room sounds.

If you check myspace.com/russfeltis I have an old song from my CD in 1997." Living my Life This Way". I recorded using one 1950's tube mic about 8 feet in front, 4 feet high. Yea, it doesn't sound perfect...but I kinda dig the Led Zepp vibe, I was drumming with brushes, heh,heh. Classic basement thomp sounds.

I like putting my money into my own gear, Pro Tools, mac laptop etc. You can record digital but if you are using real guitars,bass,drums, you can trash it up good. If it's your time you can experiment, I like drumming on a metal trash can lid.

also one tip, NEVER skimp on the mixing. Mixing itself is like playing an instrument, it can make it. Spend time on the vocals too, don't lose the song surrounded by cool reverbs and snare sounds, remember the song. I remember guitar players spending so much time not thinking that now you have to finish a song in a couple of hours, plan it out, rehearse.

Try to listen to some recording of the engineer you are gonna use. You would be surprised how some guys have no ear, or, it doesn't match yours.

Sorry, that sounded like a lecture.

I have wasted a lot of time and money in studio's.

I like doing it myself, Fucking control freak.

Have fun Man, sitting back in that control room is OUR church. Lay back and hear that organ play.

Rock IT !
BB. (new crazy song coming, honest)

[DrumSolo]

Congrats on recording!

Most of what's been said here is pretty sound advice, about mic-ing etc.

But I have to add that you should really make sure your drums are in good shape and have been tuned the way you want them to be. If you like, bring a couple of snares, cymbals or floor toms for example, just in case. Definitely bring new drum heads!

The EP my band just recorded we had a great engineer who was also about the live sound, but also making it sound modern. We close mic-ed everything but also had a few room mics. Once we nailed the right drums sounds for each part of the kit, we mixed in the room mics to give it a more live feel and it sounds great for us.

You can experiment with this stuff forever but if you have the time and money to spend several hours getting it right, it can be worth it. We spent a full day doing drum sounds and tracked one song at the end of that day.

Finally, another little thing to help the process is to bring along recordings of drums you like the sound of and when sound checking the drums, have a listen to those sounds vs your playback sounds and see if you're liking it. I love the Stewart hats and snare but it wasn't the right sound for all of our songs, so other recordings were better reference points.

As everyone has said, having the right engineer on your side to inform you of what is possible is great

Best of luck with everything, let us know how it goes =)

cheers,
Mike