Police, Genesis, Foo Fighters at Live Earth Concert 7/7/07

[cpriddims]

Well where the hell is it going to take place?...DETAILS PLEASE!

(sorry if I missed it somewhere!)

[Three over Four]

Wait and See - To quote one Mr. Lebowski: "Well, I guess that's just like.....your opinion.....man." I don't have any problem with artists 'pimping' their political views whatsoever. I don't see it as anything different than a statement I might make regarding politics at the bar with my friends, or at the office during lunch break. Musicians and actors just have a larger audience, that's all. And just because someone has a certain political view, doesn't necessarily mean that they have an agenda.

I think the world would be a much better place if we would all just take the words of the theme song to 'Diff'rent Strokes' to heart:

"Now, the world don't move to the beat of just one drum, What might be right for you, may not be right for some. A man is born, he's a man of means.
Then along come two, they got nothing but their jeans. But they got, Diff'rent Strokes.
It takes, Diff'rent Strokes.
It takes, Diff'rent Strokes to move the world.
Everybody's got a special kind of story
Everybody finds a way to shine,
It don't matter that you got not alot
So what, They'll have theirs, and you'll have yours, and I'll have mine.
And together we'll be fine....
Because it takes, Diff'rent Strokes to move the world.
Yes it does. It takes, Diff'rent Strokes to move the world."

As for Al Gore, well I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. The work he's done for the environment is to be commended....but that's just MY opinion. I certainly don't expect anyone else to fall in line with that or else....

[GinaSuperCat]

three over four...you had me at quoting the Dude...brilliant

[Three over Four]

I prefer 'el duderino', as I'm not in to that whole brevity thing....

[mudspoke]

"I think I was pretty clear... Art + Politics = Propaganda. "

Actually, the opposite is exactly what is wrong with music today. No one wants to take a stand on anything remotely controversial. The music industry is too afraid of conflict, too afraid of controversy, too afraid of losing some political vote which will further their money making interests to seriously back a band willing to take a stand on anything.

Instead, we get songs like "Oops, I Did It Again". Um, do you call that Art???

The once great thing about the U.S.A. is that people could express themselves. That isn't propoganda, that is freedom. It's only propoganda if it's sanctioned by the government.

Just my opinion, of which you are free to disagree. (Imagine that!)

[Divemistress of the Dark]

Well put, spoke. Other than that, all I have to say is: Careful, man, there's a beverage here!!

(check it out: www.lebowskifest.com These are some seriously bent people. We'd probably all love 'em.)

[Three over Four]

Now THAT sounds more like the definition of propaganda mudspoke. I was trying to figure out how the Police or any other band could be described using a word I most associate with someone like Hitler.

Nice Divemistress! I used to have that as my soundbite whenever a new e-mail would arrive. My coworkers must've thought I was mad at the time...who am I kiddin? They still do.

Thanks for that link too! I've heard of the lebowskifest, but didn't realize how big of a thing it was. Now I'm finding more t-shirts that I need to buy!

[Wait and See]

[quote="mudspoke"]"I think I was pretty clear... Art + Politics = Propaganda. "

Actually, the opposite is exactly what is wrong with music today. No one wants to take a stand on anything remotely controversial. The music industry is too afraid of conflict, too afraid of controversy, too afraid of losing some political vote which will further their money making interests to seriously back a band willing to take a stand on anything.

Instead, we get songs like "Oops, I Did It Again". Um, do you call that Art???

The once great thing about the U.S.A. is that people could express themselves. That isn't propoganda, that is freedom. It's only propoganda if it's sanctioned by the government.

Just my opinion, of which you are free to disagree. (Imagine that!)[/quote]
------------------------------


As I think is obvious from my previous posts, I disagree completely.

From Merriam-Webster:

propaganda
-- the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person
-- ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause; also : a public action having such an effect


To me, the dividing line is between art that seeks to express or examine some aspect of human existence, and art which has, as part of its intent, an attempt to CONVINCE people of some view or to CHANGE their opinion, especially about some issue with political implications.

It's not a line you can draw clearly, but kind of like pornography, you know propaganda when you see it. Different people will draw the line differently, but I think everybody has the same BS detector, even if it's subconscious.

By taking part in this kind of nakedly political event, regardless of what songs you play or statements you make, by your mere presence you have compromised your credibility as an artist. That's the way I see it. It's the flip of side of the same coin as overt commercialization, such as letting your work be bastardized in some way for use in a Coke commercial. There is no fundamental difference. You are taking your art and selling it out for a manipulative purpose. You are betraying the good will of your fans by attempting to twist their loyalty to your art into loyalty for some other entity.

Propaganda is exactly what it is.

[jedsoon]

Every band i've ever heard of has sold out. Otherwise, i would never have heard of 'em!

"Once the music leaves your head it's already compromised."

[Divemistress of the Dark]

(I thought seriously about doing drive-bys of some key Lebowski locations in SoCal last week. The really crap part tho, is the bowling alley has been torn down...

Don't get me started. I know every word of that movie. I'm serious.)

[GinaSuperCat]

So...WHO'S THE NIHILIST NOW?!! /chuckle, I spose it's bedtime

[Wait and See]

Just a thought: Does this mean Stewart has to give up his Jeep Grand Cherokee? http://www.stewartcopeland.net/forum/vi ... .php?t=930

Wierd Al would not approve...

[Three over Four]

Hmm....there is nothing in that definition that links art with politics, so is this YOUR propaganda by attempting to doing so? I mean, you're on this forum....trying to convince others that YOUR ideas are correct. "the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person" doesn't even mention anything about politics for God's sake! That definition is pretty wide open for interpretation, I'd say.

Any time I give my political opinion (or ANY opinion for that matter) on any particular drunken occasion...this would qualify as propaganda. I also feel the dividing line you describe is rather weak, and is nothing like pornography. For instance, the Police's current affiliation with Best Buy seems to me to have more to do with advertising than politics! The songs 'Bombs Away', and 'Invisible Sun' would certainly be more political in nature, but does that diminsh their quality as art? Certainly not!

Any human being worth their salt is going to have opinions, be they political or otherwise. The vast majority of artists out there are fully capable and willing to express their opinions, and should get our respect not condemnation for expressing themselves!

I think a more appropriate definition is as follows:

American Heritage New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition
propaganda-
Official government communications to the public that are designed to influence opinion. The information may be true or false, but it is always carefully selected for its political effect.

[ceebab]

[quote="Wait and See"]I think I was pretty clear... Art + Politics = Propaganda. I know that flies in the face of a now long standing baby boomer tradition of music as a tool of political activism, but then I'm not a boomer. I think everybody with an agenda can go screw themselves.

My favorite Beatles song is "Revolution", because they actually had the nerve to stick it to the "hip" crowd. That took real stones. Whining about the establishment is easy and predictable. Frank Zappa's "Who Needs the Peace Corps?" is another prime example (one of many in Zappa's case).

As for the water charity-- that's a perfect choice, because it's something where there is no controversy. Everybody can get behind it. Letting yourself be pimped by Al Gore is a whole different matter.[/quote]

Ok, first of all, by your own definition both Revolution and Who Needs the Peace Corps would be propaganda. So what you're really saying is you don't like anyone [b]who doesn't agree with you[/b] to use politics in their art.

Secondly, the marriage of politics and art is SO not a boomer thing. Art and politics have been mixed since the beginning of art. Both Mayan and Egyptian sculpture, architecture and art are all about politics, politicians, and the power structure. That is their main focus, in fact. In ancient Greece there was a playwrite named Aristophanes who gives us our first known example of political satire in his plays. I could keep going, but I hope you get the point.

Art, all art, is a way of expressing the artists' thoughts, hopes, and dreams. Sometimes those are political, sometimes they aren't. If you don't like someone's politics, then fine, but to say they don't have a right to express it in their art and ask others to think about it is to not understand the fundamental being of Art in any form.

[Three over Four]

Thanks for that insight Ceebab....my exposure to art is limited to music, film, and writing for the most part so that history is quite revealing.

Also, not to state the obvious, but you are completely free to change the radio or TV station if you hear or see something you don't care for. I much prefer to view the art and appreciate the talent of the artist, regardless of whether or not I agree with the statement he or she was making....but that's just me.