Police/Copeland drumming charts?

[Bullman]

Hi! My first post here but I have been a huge Copeland drumming fan for ages, being a drummer myself. Have probably at some stage had a bash at ever Police song ever recorded . I know my listening/interpretataion skills probably aren't as finese as others and I know there are bits that I play that I kind of just improvise without really nailing to my complete satisfaction.

I would really like to to be able to check out some actual drum charts to as many Police songs as I can get so that I can be a bit more disciplined when it comes to the bits that I normally improvise.
eg. That fast hi-hat/rimshot intro to "Regatta de Blanc" which I once had a drummer from a Police cover band write down for me once but ended up losing. It is based on a paradiddle patetrn I believe.
Can anyone advise me where I can find some Copeland/Police drum charts or if you are willing to share any with me.

Thanks

Bull

[Wait and See]

Hopefully I'm not giving away trade secrets, but Stewart used/uses an echo/delay effect a lot (I think he had a contact mic attached to each drum and a set of switches he used to turn the effect on and off), and I think he also overdubbed some of his drum parts on the Police records. The stuff you're talking about on Regatta is definitely (or at least I'm 90% sure) achieved with the use of an echo device.

[dontboxmein]

You would be correct ...he also used a delay unit...as well "Walking On The Moon".

[DirtyMartini]

Plus pre-recorded stuff during concerts . . . SC is famous for making life hell for copycat drummers. (Damn you, Stewart!)

[GinaSuperCat]

2 things: online tab sites are dropping like flies due to extended intellectual property rights problems but some are still about...

There is one songbook (from Hal Leonard, "The Police Greatest Hits") that contains guitar, voice, bass and drum charts for seven of their greatest hits:

Contents:
So Lonely
Can't Stand Losing You
Don't Stand So Close To Me
Every Breath You Take
Message In A Bottle
Roxanne
Spirits In The Material World

here's a link from Amazon just so you can look at it:

http://www.amazon.com/Police-Greatest-H ... 22&sr=8-11

Stewart talks about the delay and demonstrates it with rimclicks in the documentary ("The Police in Montserrat" w/Jools Holland) in the Special Features at the end of EBYT the Videos...actually he plays the exact beginning of Regatta you are asking about (hats/rimclicks) while explaining to Jools what the delay unit does...you can slow it down and check it out there (I can't remember if its an inverted paradiddle or what atm)

[zilboy]

Years ago, there was a magazine called Drum Charts Magazine which featured several Police drum charts. I have a couple of them. They were pretty accurate, except for a couple of spots.

Yes, Stewart does use echo on "Regatta" and "Walking," but these parts can be done accurately without one. I figured them out way before I knew that they were done with echo. It's a little tricky, but once you figure out the first part, it just loops, like an ostinato.

Getting the echo rimshots and bass drum on "Walking" is merely a matter of knowing how to play triplets against a shuffle rhythm. There's a great book called Advanced Techniques for the Modern Drummer by Jim Chapin. It has a section on shuffle rhythms in the back. This is a really great tool for developing a strong swing pulse and independence among the limbs. I highly recommend it.

Hope this helps a little.

[Wait and See]

For the sake of specificity, I don't think digital delay existed yet when the Regatta album was recorded, although I could be wrong. Stewart and Andy mention an analog Echoplex that used tape(?) on the Everyone Stares DVD, and that may have been what he was using on that album.

[Bullman]

Thanks for the responses.

I am aware of Stewarts cheeky use of triggers/loops/delaps/echos etc on several tracks both live and off albums, and it certainly does confuse things somewhat.

A classic example of the echo unmistakably and predominantly being used on a studio track is on "Burn for You".

I did forget about SC talking about using the effects and demonstarting it on the EBYT video using "Regatta de Blanc" as an example. I just had a listen to what he did in the video and then listened to the album version.
The album version does not sound like what he uses any loops/triggers/echos etc on the drumming (well not that rimshot pattern stuff anyway). I recall that the drummer who once wrote out the stick pattern for the intro rimshot pattern to "Regatta de Blanc" for me did tell me that he slowed down the song to figure it out and it doesn't involve any effects. It is just a variation of a paradiddle pattern playing 8th notes, with either right stick on the hi-hat and left stick on the rimshot at any one time. I will do that myself and let you guys knwo what I come up with, perhpas even recording it myself.

Perhaps on the EBYT DVD he was refering to the live version sound of "Regatta de Blanc" which is really the intro do the live version of "Can't Stand Losing You". What he does on the EBYT DVD sounds like the intro to "Can't Stand Losing You" in the Synchronicity Concert, which, unlike their earlier years, is full of drumming effects.

Has anyone got "The Police Greatest Hits" by Hal Leonard and would they recommend it?

Bull

[Bullman]

[quote="Bullman"]Thanks for the responses.
It is just a variation of a paradiddle pattern playing 8th notes,
Bull[/quote]

Duh....that should read "It is just a variation of a paradiddle pattern playing [b]16th[/b] notes"

[Bullman]

OK. I am back form my slowed down analysis of "Regatta de Blanc" (using Amazing Slow Downer software).

My findings are very surprising however. I DO detect some kind of echo effect at least on the rimshot, BUT it is NOT like exactly how SC demonstrated on the EBYT video.

On the "Regatta de Blanc" track (if we can just focus on the hihat/rimshot intro bit) , my best explanation of what is happeneing is that SC played the drum intro without any effects using a version of a paradiddle pattern as I mentioned (I have carefully transcribed the first 16 bars of it and will make it available). However, what they then did was to in effect copy that same drum track recording, reduce it in volume and then mix/copy/layer it over the top of the original track BUT 1/16th beat AHEAD of the original recording. Therefore, when you listen to the recording (slowed down), you can JUST hear a faint sounding note 1/16th of a beat before you hear the louder version of it.

Alternatively they could have achieved the same result by playing the original drum pattern, then echoing every note once 1/16th note AFTER but at a louder volume. In a live situation, that would mean that the echo part would have to be LOUDER than the actual primary note being played, which is kind of wierd and not how I think SC configures his echo effects in live situations, unless someone can provide an example of this otherwise. It would also mean playing the drum part 1/16th of a beat ahead of the other way of doing it.

Bull

[Wait and See]

The one that's most curious to me is "No Time This Time". It sounds like there may be use of both echo and overdubs, but it also sounds as if it may have been sped up by recording it at a slower speed. Some of the fills and the stuff on the snare are insanely fast. I'm a little limited figuring it out because I'm a guitar player, not a drummer, though. I think it's mostly overdubs.

There are definitely overdubs on Message in a Bottle, too. You can hear pretty clearly on the verses, an eighth/sixteenth note pattern on the hi hat, with simultaneous hits on the snare and ride. Unless he has a hidden third arm, I'm pretty sure that's impossible.

[GinaSuperCat]

Thanks for the reporting of your findings Bullman...I haven't had a chance to listen to both and compare yet (been out with the flu and can't hear anything clearly, or get off the couch for that matter) so super thanks for sorting this out and explaining here...as for the video, ya I should have specified that he was talking about the use of the delay/effects only for live performances (I think he said that the delay and effects he was explaining was only live because there was better stuff for recording)...the Montserrat studio denotes Ghost/Sych era, of course...figuring out what Sewart is doing in both recordings and live performances both pose difficulties, albeit different ones!

[nathanarizona]

Okay, I'm not a musician (just a wannabe) but this thread reminded me of a story from long ago...when I was in high school there was this guy we knew who was a couple of years older and already had his own place as a sr. He was a drummer so we used to bring him stuff to see if he could play it. Being Police fans and in particular Copeland fans we brought over Regatta one day. He of course knew the Police but hadn't really tried to play any of it. So we ask him to listen to "Walking on the Moon" and see if he can do it. So he gives it a few listens and tries to get it all sussed out. He starts trying to play along and after about 3 tries comes to a dead stop and says, "That motherf@#$er must have three arms!"

Years later I read an interveiw with Stewart in which he said all the aforementioned stuff about overdubbing, etc.

[Wait and See]

This may be the video in question:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIM-6MS9a0g

[Bullman]

[quote="Wait and See"]The one that's most curious to me is "No Time This Time". It sounds like there may be use of both echo and overdubs, but it also sounds as if it may have been sped up by recording it at a slower speed. Some of the fills and the stuff on the snare are insanely fast. I'm a little limited figuring it out because I'm a guitar player, not a drummer, though. I think it's mostly overdubs.[/quote]

Yeah. "No Time This Time" is certainly a curious recording. During the verses, it sounds like they have overdubded the actual 16th note snare intro drum fill (that you hear at the start of the song) over his regular playing. I think this track best captures Copelands drumming style on a fast tempo song and is chock full of very fun fills and crashes. I really like those stop/start fills at the end fo the song. It is a GREAT song to drum along to and on of my favs. Yes, some of those fills are VERY fast!

Bull