DRUMMERS: Heel Up or Heel Down?

[plutonic]

YO,

I got a kit to practice on in my Apartment 3 weeks ago.

Despite the fact that this is an electronic kit, I've already gotten a note from the building about a drummer that the residents in my vicinity can't quite locate.

They can recognize the rhythm, so I guess I'm onto something but they can't quite locate it yet, as there are no actual drum sounds for their ears to triangulate. Mostly, I think, the sound of the bass drum pedal/pad resonates through the floor. But I digress.

A drum technique question / discussion:

Those of you who are acquainted with the finer points of percussion, would you care to enter into a discussion for us newbs regarding the Black Arts of the Right Foot?

*coughSPECAcough*
*coughLAZcough*
*coughSEITZcough*
*coughCHIPcough*
*coughAZPEARTPORTNOYcough*
*coughSKAMANcough*
*coughBONGOcough*
*coughDON'TBOXMEINcough*
*coughSTEWARTcough*
*coughDRUMMERScough*

There's this thing about Heel Up/Down

I have no technique, nor am I ever going to get good technique.

However, I've decided the key to drumming for me is going to lie in training my right foot, and my left hand. I can flail my right arm as fast and accurately as I want after years of strumming. And I can tap on all four, but that's not going to cut it.

So....

I'm trying to arrive at the most efficient technique. My best guess is that heel UP/Down is a false dichotomy: it sort of depends on situation and kick pedal tension and a whole lot of other stuff. Gah, subtlety. In drumming. Who knew?

I'm completely new at this whole thing. So please, educate me and the newb crew.

[DirtyMartini]

[quote="plutonic"]Despite the fact that this is an electronic kit, I've already gotten a note from the building about a drummer that the residents in my vicinity can't quite locate.[/quote]

Hilarious.

Congrats on the new endeavor, Pluto. And for driving someone in the building batty with the mystery. Good luck!

[sockii]

Cheers Pluto! What kind of e-kit did you get?

They are pretty good for us city-dwellers, though, do you have some kind of rug/padding underfoot? Because that should do wonders for cutting down on noise through the walls.

I wish I could master heel-up. I get shinsplints like a mofo from heel-down but it's the only way I can stay balanced and keep up any kind of independent co-ordination so far. Yet I also know I can't really master fast bass patterns without going to heel-up.

No doubt paying for some professional lessons might help me get past this. If I had any money for such a thing I'd totally be on it.

[Chatchka]

To all of the great drummers who might answer, may I add... YES PLEASE OH GREAT ONES, please enlighten us.

For your amusement, since you (rightly) didn't ask me, I'll share that I play heel up. I started playing this way with the encouragement of my instructor, because he felt it offered greater control and wasted less energy. Shin muscles get tired flexing the foot in the heel down approach. Hip/thigh muscles have more power, so heel up approach offered better power and longevity. I also find it easier on 16th notes with heel up.

Later I discovered that my perspective is informed by the fact that I wear high heels (3"-4") ALL the time. I'm always heel up, so this leg position was no adjustment for me at all. My instructor was skeptical and then incredulous when I came to a lesson straight from the office, still wearing heels and was able to play with no technique adjustment at all. When I started lessons I used to wear chucks, but now I don't. The flat shoes make it more tiring. And, to be clear, I'm not resting the tip of my stilletto on the ground while playing -- I'm still heel up. Not sure how it would feel for a man to play heel up. Perhaps more exhausting than for me.

Can't wait to hear other responses.

(You should start a fable with your neighbors about some vaguely famous drummer who died mysteriously long ago in your building. Maybe they'll write it off as a ghost.)

[Chatchka]

Oops, double post.

[sockii]

Ha! Maybe that's why I have such a bitch playing heel-up - I NEVER wear heels and vespa can attest that part of the reason for that is I have absolute shit balance and generally will make a fool of myself when/if I try by repeatedly falling/tripping all over the place.

[animal]

Congrats on the purchase pluto..

If the noise issue becomes a problem, you may want to check out the other forum for the Tennis Ball Impact Noise Isolating Platform...

Many moons ago, I would play Heel UP, tried heel down but UP just felt more comfortable to me.

I guess try both and see which one you feel is better.

Congrats again and have fun.

[Schmaffy]

[quote="Chatchka"]My instructor was skeptical and then incredulous when I came to a lesson straight from the office, still wearing heels and was able to play with no technique adjustment at all. [/quote]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Love it.

I'm heel down, exclusively. Heel up makes me stray all over the damn place.

I got no control, I tell ya.

[smudge]

I'm only just starting with this stuff, but I'm another Heel Up. Reason is, if I leave my heel down, I tend to be sloppy about lifting the foot properly, so the beater thingummy doesn't pull back all the way, and then the next stroke is a bit limp.

[GinaSuperCat]

Side note: I just LOVE the fact that the drum geek threads have so many of the sistas in them now, as well!

Having perused many drum forums and sites, I have to say that STEWART drummers are the best! I love you guys! I miss it when we the geek threads are few and far between here!

As for bass drum technique: for the most part, it is a matter of preference and what works best for you. When you are just starting out, go with what feels better. If you ask a rhetorician, the answer is 'it depends...' <grin>

Sockster is the resident resource on the electronic kit, my ramblings below may not take into consideration that since I'm an acoustic kit kat...

I usually tend towards playing heel up, I've got high arches and the way I'm built I've always tended to outsource most of the work to my quads (I am, after all, a lioness <grin>). One thing about heel up is that you will get tired over periods of time in a different way. And heel up also will have repercussions when you add in the left foot more and more...


I am become more of the opinion, slight addenda to the above, that working on both will help widen your repertoire, add more tools to the toolbox, so to speak. Think of the bass drum stroke as somewhat analogous to the snare stroke. You use different parts for different things, even if you maintain the same grip (some are more fingers, some are more wrist, some are more upper arm).

Kick strokes can been seen somewhat similarly--heel up and heel down will primarily use different parts of your leg. Speed, control, punch--these are all variables that you can tinker with using different techniques.

You will definitely feel the difference in the work each requires after a while, experimenting.

While many drummers use one or the other, primarily emphasizing a certain element/advantage that either way provide, some mix it up (oftentimes this is more so with jazz training)

Steve Smith's History of the US beat was helpful for me in seeing the versatility of, for last of a better way of putting it, versatility. He changes his grip, changes the way he plays with both hat and bass feet, depending on what the situation calls for. I think that this is an eminently awesome way to think about it, at least for me. His skills are Big and the ability to be versatile in such a way is pretty far down the line, at least for me, but to keep this in mind can be productive.

When you work on adding the fourth element, the hi hat foot, you will likely need to tinker with the way you play the bass drum anyhow--I found the more I was working on using the hat foot, the more I needed to calibrate the way I played bass drum for balance. Staying on the throne is good...

So while you are working on three and four way coordination, I would suggest sticking predominently with what feels more natural and less awkward for just working towards coordinating the limbs and building muscle memory. But I would also suggest thinking about it as perhaps less a permanent decision you are setting in stone now and keeping open the possibility of the different things you can do with the different positions for the future.

Keep rocking STEWART drummers, the more the merrier!! -GSC

[plutonic]

[quote="smudge"]
I'm only just starting with this stuff, but I'm another Heel Up. Reason is, if I leave my heel down, I tend to be sloppy about lifting the foot properly, so the beater thingummy doesn't pull back all the way, and then the next stroke is a bit limp.
[/quote]

Yes! I am with you on this.

I think a distinction needs to be made, however.

Reconcile HEEL UP with KNEE UP. Which, if I'm reading the lyrics to the "Your Heel Bone's Connected to your Knee Bone" lyrics correctly, is a tricky business. If Heel up = Knee Up, I'm left with my right knee attempting to float in mid air all night long. Which, given my lousy track record with situps, is not a possibility for a 3 minute song, let alone a 90 minute gig.

The magic, as it occurs to this newb, happens here:

Between strokes, I'm resting my heel on the ground, with the weight of my foot on the pedal.

The beater has to be at a height, and the tension on the bass pedal spring attenuated so that the weight of my foot on it the pedal puts the beater someplace midway in the swing of the beater.

For me, I've discovered that it makes a HUGE difference how successful I am with this technique according to where I put the ball of my foot on the pedal.

Sound like I'm in the ballpark, oh YE DRUM GODS?

So the term Heel UP only necessarily describes the moment when the head hits the beater, and the fleeting moments before and after.

The rest of the time, HEEL DOWN.

The height of the throne, and the distance from the throne to the pedal are also KEY.

Thoughts on these matters would also be interesting:

1) Throne height (For me, higher than knee)
2) Thigh angle (Slightly down)
3) Calf angle (Foot slightly forward)
4) Ball of foot as positioned on pedal. (For me, about Midway up the pedal.)
5) Toe or ball of foot? (When you press the pedal, do you curl your toes with or away from the action of the pedal.)

[zilboy]

I play bass drum heel-up most of the time; however, my heel is very near the footboard while I'm playing. When I started out, I'd play heel-down, but nowadays (meaning for the last 30 years), I only play "flat-footed" when I need to play very softly, but smoothly.

Conversely, I play hi-hat almost exclusively heel-toe in a rocking motion, except when I'm playing really fast 8th notes - then I switch to heel-up. I just learned to play like this and I find it does give me a lot better balance.

When I play double-bass patterns, though, it's heel-up in the left foot, like my right.

I do curl my toes when I play (in both feet) and I've got some painful calluses as a result. I have no idea why I play like this - it just seems instinctive.

I don't bury the beater in the head. I let it bounce off. The sound is more resonant that way. I also keep my spring tension pretty loose and my beaters are set pretty high. I use DW beaters. I love 'em. They allow great momentum and they really make the drum "sing".

I'm very lanky, so I sit pretty high. Never sit with your knees under your chin! You'll kill your lower back and legs.

Despite all this, I still get terrible calf cramps, usually at 3 AM. I have tried everything to prevent them with no relief. I chalk it up to my physique.

Hope this helps. Good luck & have fun!

[Laz]

[quote="GinaSuperCat"]
While many drummers use one or the other, primarily emphasizing a certain element/advantage that either way provide, some mix it up (oftentimes this is more so with jazz training)
[/quote]

...what she said...

I think the key is relaxation... also a REALLY important thing is the way your kit is set up ergonomically... a common suggestion is to sit on your drum throne away from your kit naturally as if you were watching TV or something and drop your arms naturally to your sides... (BTW, I usually have my throne set up where my legs are angled down to my knees at most a couple of inches...gives me that "above/over my drumset" feeling; just don't set it too low or high) You then look down and wherever your feet happen to be, that's where your kick and hihat pedals should go... also everything should be set up as naturally as possible so that nothing's too close or nothing's too far where you're reaching for anything.

As was mentioned above, I definitely switch between heel-up and heel-down almost without thinking about it (usually heel-down for softer playing and heel-up for louder playing when necessary)... I tend to practice some things heel-down at first VERY SLOWLY for a while... after doing this a few days, playing the same thing at the desired tempo heel-up feels much easier to me.

Another thing to think about might be your knee angle/distance from your knee to the kick drum. I have found that having my leg at a 90 degree/right angle causes more pain at my shin, particularly when playing heel-down. Normally I sit slightly (not too much) farther from the kick drum for a slightly more open angle at the knee, which feels more comfortable to me. Again, it's all about relaxation and what feels most comfortable to you. Best of luck!

Laz

[DirtyMartini]

One thing I (non-player) was going to say which zilboy hit a bit on is to keep in mind the body types you're polling. Particularly since, on average, women have more leg length for their height (and a different center of gravity) than men, which will affect angles and preferences.

[policerule]

I don't "play", but when I do, it's heel up for moi... diggy diggy.


Congrats on the new kit, Pluto! Have fun!